There was a long discussion about parking and camping around the Grassroots Festival, an exciting statement by Sue Polvorde, and important discussion on the Ambulance/EMS privatization issue. Please go to my other blog trumansburgambulance.blogspot.com for more on this.
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's the audio link
0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds (o-0-o) - discussion about fee increase for dog licenses
0-16-0 - local law #2 traffic law - long discussion of parking and camping on Rabbit Run Road.
0-43-12 - planning board report
0-44-15 - Sue Polvorde Comprehensive Plan Report, and she reads a statement about inappropriate behavior of Supervisor Austic at the last meeting
0-49-33 - Geoffrey Hart wonders why Doug Austic tolerates criticism! (reminds me of a famous quote from George Bush "this would be a lot easier if it was a dictatorship, just as long as I'm the dictator" and it makes me wonder why the Village Board rules for public comment periods say that people should not direct criticism toward particular board members. Isn't that a violation of our 1st amendment rights?) Fortunately, Austic says it doesn't bother him.
0-49-53 - Highway Superintendents report.
0-50-50 - Town Clerk report
0-51-57 - Operating statement, Dick Coogan's report
0-53-10 - Water Advisory Board appointments
1-05-02 - Back to local law 2 about Rabbit Run. Liz Thomas argues in favor of the Board having a say in what roads are marked in what way, in-order to avoid a scenario where our community will be perceived as unwelcoming to the Grassroots Festival.
1-18-40 - They pass a resolution to post Rabbit Run
1-20-08 - Ambulance issue. Liz Thomas introduces the resolution below for discussion (not for voting because it would need to be made available earlier)
Town of Ulysses Resolution Regarding Funding of the Village of Trumansburg Ambulance/EMS Service.
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses has been notified of the recommendation of the Village of Trumansburg's EMS Task Force, to begin a policy of billing all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service in order to recover funds from insured residents and,
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses provides a large share of the funds for the operation of the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service and,
Whereas, the Village of Trumansburg has requested a letter or resolution expressing support or opposition to this plan and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan would move us in a direction opposite to the wishes of many of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is unclear where the recovered insurance funds will be dedicated, whether to a retirement fund for Fire Department volunteers or to a tax break for residents, and if so, the amount.
Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents and,
Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve and,
Whereas, billing for ambulance services could negatively impact the level of donations to the ambulance service.
Therefore, be it hereby resolved that this board stands in opposition to the current plan to hire a third party billing company to bill all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Trumansburg ambulance/EMS service unless those who have no insurance are guaranteed EMS/ambulance service at no charge and,
Further, be it resolved that this board feels that the funds that the Town of Ulysses provides to the Village of Trumansburg for the ambulance/EMS service are well spent, and we wish to continue to guarantee service to all residents in need of emergency free of charge other than the payments made through taxes.
Finally, be it resolved that a copy of this resolution be sent to the Village of Trumansburg.
1-28-29 - Doug Austic " I think there are a couple of things in your resolution that probably are not true"
Rod Ferentino "Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents - That's not true - at all - ok - you can't say that - I don't agree with that at all. "
This is key. If Rod truly doesn't believe that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of his constituents, then he isn't listening to the nine volunteers that spoke up at the public hearing. He later admits that in his first hand experience (He is a volunteer himself) more than half of potential recipients of care, are leery of accepting care now, because of a fear of big bills. The average citizen is unaware of the billing policies for our ambulance. They don't realize that they pay for it with their taxes, and that there is no charge for the care. The volunteers that spoke at the hearing said that if we go to billing, they will no longer be able to say, as they do now, that there will be no charge. "please don't tie our hands like that" one of them said. If we tie their hands - a life could be lost. Further, if we go to billing, it will be reported in the papers, and someone will realize one day soon, that if they call 911 when they are having chest pains, that they will get a bill, and they won't make the call. If they then die, the Village will never even know, that they are responsible for the death. This is obvious, and obviously the most important issue here. I don't know why we bother arguing about all of the small stuff surrounding this issue. If we accept this reality, the argument should be over.
1-34-00 - Chris Thomas again states that when Bangs comes up here, that the recipient has to pay Bangs on top of having to pay their private insurance premiums. Uh, if they've got insurance then the insurance company should pay Bangs, right?
1-35-22 - Rod Ferrinto objects to "Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents" Rod says there is no evidence of this. Chris Thomas also likes to make this argument. At the public hearing Chris said,
"And the argument that the money collected from these insurance companies will immediately and entirely be billed back to our community in the form of premiums, is a red herring not backed up by the least bit of information or research, but instead by loosely connected circumstances."
Well, Chris, nobody said "immediately and entirely", but yes, they will largely, and eventually be billed back to us. Here's some research for you; William McGuire is the CEO of United Health, one of the largest HMO's in the country. He makes 8 million/year plus bonuses, and has amassed 1.6 billion in stock options, one of the largest stock option fortunes in history. Bill gets around in a private jet. Let's look at some business basics. Bill has to balance income, expenses, and profit. If expenses go up (more people billing him) he has a tough choice to make. He can either raise income (premiums), or cut profit. Based on a quick look at his net worth, I think I know which one he has been choosing. Chris can obfuscate with talk about this account and that account and actuarial tables, but I'm not buying it. If we start billing, premiums will go up. There is no free lunch.
1-36-30 - Rod objects to "Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve" Rod objects, in spite of the fact that many of the volunteers at the public hearing stated exactly that. Norm Hummel said, at the public hearing that he would quit. Rod said "Norm's not going to quit" I'm not sure Rod is the best listener. He thinks that volunteerism might actually go up under this plan. I've talked to many of the volunteers, and Rod is the only one to hold this opinion.
1-43-12 - Doug Austic "what I'm saying is, the insurance companies are not going to reduce their premiums to the people in the town of Ulysses because they don't have to pay for the ambulance." It would take a great deal of research to know exactly how much every insurance company is charging and exactly how they each arrive at how they charge for what they charge. I'm afraid I don't have the time for that research, but it seems obvious to me that the insurance companies have large quantities of data on all of the residents of our fire district, including frequency of payments to ambulance companies. This data is easily sorted by zip code, so it would seem obvious that our premiums should be based upon these payments plus the profit margins for the various companies. If my assumptions are correct, then how could increased ambulance payments by these companies not result in increased premiums? They sure as hell won't take it out of their profits.
1-43-50 - Rod Ferentino's paradigm shift theory. Maybe he's got a point here about a national trend of decreasing volunteerism. He says that it's largely to do with increased training time required of the volunteers. Perhaps we should consider paying the volunteers for their time and expenses to get this training. I think this trend away from volunteerism also has to do with a selfishness that has been growing in the national consciousness for many years. How long has it been since you've heard a president say "Ask not, what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" ? Instead we now have a president that, after 9/11, tells us to go shopping, and thinks we can fight oil wars and put the tab on future generations. This could be changing soon. There is hope. Rod says that volunteerism will continue to fall and that we will soon have to go to a paid staff 24/7 and that this will cost us a lot. Leadership like this is not helping.
1-47-25 - Rod says that the Town of Covert is supportive of billing and the Town of Hector is opposed.
1-48-00 - Chris Thomas says that he will not support billing if the Town of Ulysses doesn't support it. Then he says that this move to paid 24/7 and billing is inevitable and that as an owner of a business, he knows how important it is to foresee these crisis points, because if it happens in the middle of a budget year, it's going to hurt us severely in the pocket book. This sounds like scare tactics to me. I disagree that this is inevitable, and even if we did have a "crisis point" next week, and the cost of the ambulance service doubled overnight, we are talking about the average tax payer having to pay $60/year/person instead of the current $30/year/person. That's not a crisis. We should continue to pay for the service through our taxes, and we should provide incentives to volunteers through our taxes, and we should stop electing Libertarians that want to privatize our community services.
1-53-00 - Other old business? Code ethics, gifts, .....
2-00-38 - Public comments - I speak briefly here and I said that at the public meeting 18 people spoke against billing and 9 spoke in favor. I didn't have my notes. It was actually 18 to 7 not 18 to 9. Of those who spoke in favor, some of them seem to have fallen for Chris Thomas's trick of saying that people without insurance will not be harmed because the village will adopt a policy of "non aggressive billing"
In favor - 7
Chris Thomas - Trustee responsible for all this
Geri Stevenson - fell for the trick
Renee Carver - fell for the trick
Geoffrey Hart - neoconservative
Justine Kolb - wife of Chris Thomas, fell for the trick
Ben Curtis - Independence Party
Didn't catch the name - Searsburg Rd
Opposed 18
Norm Hummel - volunteer paramedic
Allen Carstensen - author of this blog
Bob Howarth - Cornell professor
Rany Haas - volunteer fire and ems
Ron McLean - former fire volunteer
Mary Anne Archangeli - significant other of a volunteer
Michelle Paollilo - EMS volunteer
Robert Lodder - Prospect Street
Peter Meskill - Sheriff
Patricia Bonzall - Pennsylvania Ave
Barry Bines - Cayuga St
Jim Mason - volunteer fire fighter
Jackie Wright - volunteer and president of the Fire Company
Didn't catch the name - Swamp College Road
Deloris Something - Ulysses
Tammy Ward - volunteer
Charle Heath - volunteer
Ruth Kahn Rt 227
Not really clear
Deloris Higareda?
Blair Obrien?
2-05-50 - Doug Austic, again claims my $30/person is wrong. He said that he got a call from a guy who claims that he is paying $700/year for the ambulances service. It's based on assessment. Fine, I get it. Let's look at it that way.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Ulysses-New-York.html
at this site you learn that the median value of a house in Ulysses is $130,000
The portion of the tax bill for residents of Ulysses for the ambulance is 57 cents/thousand of assessment.
130 x .57 = $74.10 per household. The average household has 2.6 people living there
$74.10 divided by 2.6 people = $28.50 / person
To base our policies on sympathy for the poor guy that's paying $700 while living in a mansion, would seem a little too Bush like. We're not like that here in Ulysses are we? It's called progressive taxation. The rich are supposed to pay more. That's a good thing. Some rich people realize this and don't mind paying more. Others don't. You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. (Bush has a different version)
2-09-10 - Liz let's us know that the rest of the meeting is going to be boring, going over bills.
Town of Ulysses Resolution Regarding Funding of the Village of Trumansburg Ambulance/EMS Service.
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses has been notified of the recommendation of the Village of Trumansburg's EMS Task Force, to begin a policy of billing all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service in order to recover funds from insured residents and,
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses provides a large share of the funds for the operation of the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service and,
Whereas, the Village of Trumansburg has requested a letter or resolution expressing support or opposition to this plan and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan would move us in a direction opposite to the wishes of many of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is unclear where the recovered insurance funds will be dedicated, whether to a retirement fund for Fire Department volunteers or to a tax break for residents, and if so, the amount.
Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents and,
Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve and,
Whereas, billing for ambulance services could negatively impact the level of donations to the ambulance service.
Therefore, be it hereby resolved that this board stands in opposition to the current plan to hire a third party billing company to bill all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Trumansburg ambulance/EMS service unless those who have no insurance are guaranteed EMS/ambulance service at no charge and,
Further, be it resolved that this board feels that the funds that the Town of Ulysses provides to the Village of Trumansburg for the ambulance/EMS service are well spent, and we wish to continue to guarantee service to all residents in need of emergency free of charge other than the payments made through taxes.
Finally, be it resolved that a copy of this resolution be sent to the Village of Trumansburg.
1-28-29 - Doug Austic " I think there are a couple of things in your resolution that probably are not true"
Rod Ferentino "Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents - That's not true - at all - ok - you can't say that - I don't agree with that at all. "
This is key. If Rod truly doesn't believe that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of his constituents, then he isn't listening to the nine volunteers that spoke up at the public hearing. He later admits that in his first hand experience (He is a volunteer himself) more than half of potential recipients of care, are leery of accepting care now, because of a fear of big bills. The average citizen is unaware of the billing policies for our ambulance. They don't realize that they pay for it with their taxes, and that there is no charge for the care. The volunteers that spoke at the hearing said that if we go to billing, they will no longer be able to say, as they do now, that there will be no charge. "please don't tie our hands like that" one of them said. If we tie their hands - a life could be lost. Further, if we go to billing, it will be reported in the papers, and someone will realize one day soon, that if they call 911 when they are having chest pains, that they will get a bill, and they won't make the call. If they then die, the Village will never even know, that they are responsible for the death. This is obvious, and obviously the most important issue here. I don't know why we bother arguing about all of the small stuff surrounding this issue. If we accept this reality, the argument should be over.
1-34-00 - Chris Thomas again states that when Bangs comes up here, that the recipient has to pay Bangs on top of having to pay their private insurance premiums. Uh, if they've got insurance then the insurance company should pay Bangs, right?
1-35-22 - Rod Ferrinto objects to "Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents" Rod says there is no evidence of this. Chris Thomas also likes to make this argument. At the public hearing Chris said,
"And the argument that the money collected from these insurance companies will immediately and entirely be billed back to our community in the form of premiums, is a red herring not backed up by the least bit of information or research, but instead by loosely connected circumstances."
Well, Chris, nobody said "immediately and entirely", but yes, they will largely, and eventually be billed back to us. Here's some research for you; William McGuire is the CEO of United Health, one of the largest HMO's in the country. He makes 8 million/year plus bonuses, and has amassed 1.6 billion in stock options, one of the largest stock option fortunes in history. Bill gets around in a private jet. Let's look at some business basics. Bill has to balance income, expenses, and profit. If expenses go up (more people billing him) he has a tough choice to make. He can either raise income (premiums), or cut profit. Based on a quick look at his net worth, I think I know which one he has been choosing. Chris can obfuscate with talk about this account and that account and actuarial tables, but I'm not buying it. If we start billing, premiums will go up. There is no free lunch.
1-36-30 - Rod objects to "Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve" Rod objects, in spite of the fact that many of the volunteers at the public hearing stated exactly that. Norm Hummel said, at the public hearing that he would quit. Rod said "Norm's not going to quit" I'm not sure Rod is the best listener. He thinks that volunteerism might actually go up under this plan. I've talked to many of the volunteers, and Rod is the only one to hold this opinion.
1-43-12 - Doug Austic "what I'm saying is, the insurance companies are not going to reduce their premiums to the people in the town of Ulysses because they don't have to pay for the ambulance." It would take a great deal of research to know exactly how much every insurance company is charging and exactly how they each arrive at how they charge for what they charge. I'm afraid I don't have the time for that research, but it seems obvious to me that the insurance companies have large quantities of data on all of the residents of our fire district, including frequency of payments to ambulance companies. This data is easily sorted by zip code, so it would seem obvious that our premiums should be based upon these payments plus the profit margins for the various companies. If my assumptions are correct, then how could increased ambulance payments by these companies not result in increased premiums? They sure as hell won't take it out of their profits.
1-43-50 - Rod Ferentino's paradigm shift theory. Maybe he's got a point here about a national trend of decreasing volunteerism. He says that it's largely to do with increased training time required of the volunteers. Perhaps we should consider paying the volunteers for their time and expenses to get this training. I think this trend away from volunteerism also has to do with a selfishness that has been growing in the national consciousness for many years. How long has it been since you've heard a president say "Ask not, what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" ? Instead we now have a president that, after 9/11, tells us to go shopping, and thinks we can fight oil wars and put the tab on future generations. This could be changing soon. There is hope. Rod says that volunteerism will continue to fall and that we will soon have to go to a paid staff 24/7 and that this will cost us a lot. Leadership like this is not helping.
1-47-25 - Rod says that the Town of Covert is supportive of billing and the Town of Hector is opposed.
1-48-00 - Chris Thomas says that he will not support billing if the Town of Ulysses doesn't support it. Then he says that this move to paid 24/7 and billing is inevitable and that as an owner of a business, he knows how important it is to foresee these crisis points, because if it happens in the middle of a budget year, it's going to hurt us severely in the pocket book. This sounds like scare tactics to me. I disagree that this is inevitable, and even if we did have a "crisis point" next week, and the cost of the ambulance service doubled overnight, we are talking about the average tax payer having to pay $60/year/person instead of the current $30/year/person. That's not a crisis. We should continue to pay for the service through our taxes, and we should provide incentives to volunteers through our taxes, and we should stop electing Libertarians that want to privatize our community services.
1-53-00 - Other old business? Code ethics, gifts, .....
2-00-38 - Public comments - I speak briefly here and I said that at the public meeting 18 people spoke against billing and 9 spoke in favor. I didn't have my notes. It was actually 18 to 7 not 18 to 9. Of those who spoke in favor, some of them seem to have fallen for Chris Thomas's trick of saying that people without insurance will not be harmed because the village will adopt a policy of "non aggressive billing"
In favor - 7
Chris Thomas - Trustee responsible for all this
Geri Stevenson - fell for the trick
Renee Carver - fell for the trick
Geoffrey Hart - neoconservative
Justine Kolb - wife of Chris Thomas, fell for the trick
Ben Curtis - Independence Party
Didn't catch the name - Searsburg Rd
Opposed 18
Norm Hummel - volunteer paramedic
Allen Carstensen - author of this blog
Bob Howarth - Cornell professor
Rany Haas - volunteer fire and ems
Ron McLean - former fire volunteer
Mary Anne Archangeli - significant other of a volunteer
Michelle Paollilo - EMS volunteer
Robert Lodder - Prospect Street
Peter Meskill - Sheriff
Patricia Bonzall - Pennsylvania Ave
Barry Bines - Cayuga St
Jim Mason - volunteer fire fighter
Jackie Wright - volunteer and president of the Fire Company
Didn't catch the name - Swamp College Road
Deloris Something - Ulysses
Tammy Ward - volunteer
Charle Heath - volunteer
Ruth Kahn Rt 227
Not really clear
Deloris Higareda?
Blair Obrien?
2-05-50 - Doug Austic, again claims my $30/person is wrong. He said that he got a call from a guy who claims that he is paying $700/year for the ambulances service. It's based on assessment. Fine, I get it. Let's look at it that way.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Ulysses-New-York.html
at this site you learn that the median value of a house in Ulysses is $130,000
The portion of the tax bill for residents of Ulysses for the ambulance is 57 cents/thousand of assessment.
130 x .57 = $74.10 per household. The average household has 2.6 people living there
$74.10 divided by 2.6 people = $28.50 / person
To base our policies on sympathy for the poor guy that's paying $700 while living in a mansion, would seem a little too Bush like. We're not like that here in Ulysses are we? It's called progressive taxation. The rich are supposed to pay more. That's a good thing. Some rich people realize this and don't mind paying more. Others don't. You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. (Bush has a different version)
2-09-10 - Liz let's us know that the rest of the meeting is going to be boring, going over bills.
