You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's the link to the mp3 file
0 hours 2 mins 20 sec Sue Poelvorde on the Town''s Comprehensive Plan. It should be ready for the Board to consider approval in October or November
0-9-40 Chris Thomas says that the Village is going to hold off on the idea of going to EMS billing. And mentions the extra paid shifts on Friday and Saturday nights. And mentions his plan to draft a contract between the Village and the Fire Company.
(For more on the EMS issues, see the 8/11 Village Board meeting audio and notes below)
Chris mentions that the Village has offered $41, 113 for the old telephone company building..$30,000, for the building and the rest for asbestos abatement. He said that there has been an anonymous contribution of $30,000 and another for $1000.
0-12-40 Jim Meeker - Highway Superintendent's report
Town Clerk's report
0-15-10 Lucia Tyler reports from her attending the Environment Management Council meeting. There was a presentation about an Ash Borer which is expected to decimate our Ash trees soon. There is now a regulation which prohibits bringing firewood into State Parks in order to slow or stop this insect.
0-22-00 Discussion of wind generators, and regulations, and noise ordinances.
0-43-22 Lucia Tyler mentions my letter that I gave her just before this meeting. Here is the text,
I spoke with Abigail Smith, the director of the SPCA today. She said that the council of governments requested proposals for dog control to be sent to them by 8/15. Abigail is working on this and will have it to COG on time. She would like to provide comprehensive services to all of the townships in the county and be supported accordingly (currently Ulysses and Groton are the only hold outs) .
When we stopped contracting for dog control with the SPCA, we began to get a free ride for the other services that they provide, such as animal cruelty investigations, picking up stray cats, free spaying and neutering, and animal adoptions.
Apparently Chris Austin has been doing a good job, and saving tax payer dollars, but this is not the only issue. We want the SPCA to be there for many reasons, and it is irresponsible to withhold funds from them.
Abigail would request that before entering contracts that would take us into 2009, that towns would wait and review the proposal that will be available at the COG on 8/15, and if there are any questions, to ask for a meeting with her.
In July, the SPCA took in a stray dog that was brought in by a resident of Trumansburg. They will be billing for that impound, but it's interesting to note that Chris Austin wasn't called--the woman just brought the dog in. He stayed there for 11 days, and was adopted out. The point is that the SPCA is there, fully staffed, providing even the services they are not reimbursed for.
After Lucia Tyler synopsized my letter, Doug Austic's immediate response was that all of these services that the SPCA provides beyond dog control, are not required by the Department of Agriculture and Markets. We, funded the SPCA for many years, in spite of it not being required by Ag and Markets. We used to feel that it was the responsible thing to do. We stopped when there was a large increase in the contract cost. The cost after the increase, however, is not out of line with that paid for similar services around the state and the country. The question is do we want to shoulder our responsibility to pay for these services. If we do, it will be a very small percentage of our tax bill. Rod Ferrentino said that I should talk to the SPCA, because Abigail Smith came to a meeting a few months ago, and didn't advocate for the SPCA very aggressively. I have talked to her however, and she would like to have comprehensive contracts with all of the towns in the county, in the interests of the animal's well being and the long term financial viability of the SPCA.
The town will soon be working on their budget for next year so it would be a good time to discuss whether or not we will contract with the SPCA again.
0-50-00 discussion of escaped buffalo roaming around Ulysses! Someone suggested that a real Town Board would get together and herd the buffalo back onto the owners property. If you see 'em, contact the DEC.
1-00-00 discussion of the ethics involved in members of the board receiving gifts such as Grassroots tickets.
1-07-45 Doug says they have a $400,000 rehabilitation grant and they can't get rid of it because federal rules say you can't touch a building that has lead based paint.
1-21-00 discussion about support for the Black Diamond Trail. Jim Meeker says that he thinks the town could handle installation of culvert pipes, but the BDT folks should come up with the pipe.
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Village Board Meeting 8/11/08
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
here's a link to the mp3 file
0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds - I arrived with the meeting in progress. First public comment period. Tom Prisloe and Tim Johnson spoke in favor of a 4 way stop sign at Congress St. and Seneca Rd. and possibly also at Washington St. and Seneca Rd. in order to promote safety and slow people down. Chris Thomas lives on that intersection, and he made a motion to install the signs. This passed unanimously.
0-12-25 - my public comment - Pulitzer prize winning author Ron Suskind's new book The Way of The World http://www.ronsuskind.com/thewayoftheworld/ came out last week, and reveals the existence of a forged letter that was written at the insistence of the White House, in the fall of 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, when they were embarrassed at their failure to find WMD. They had this forgery written in the hand of Sadam's former intelligence chief, and dated fall of 2001. This letter was supposed to be provide proof that Sadam was receiving shipments of yellow cake uranium from Niger, and that the mastermind of the 9/11 attack was trained in Iraq. This letter was reported on in the major papers, and provided cover for the administration's ongoing slaughter in Iraq. When over 4000 Americans and 1 million Iraqis die based on fabricated evidence to justify war, the fabricators are guilty of murder, and high crimes and misdemeanors. These crimes have implications all over the world, including our little village. It is irresponsible to continue to fail to pass the resolution to encourage investigation of these crimes.
0-13-25 Ron McLean wants to know what and when something will be done about the tractor trailers hauling garbage up to Seneca Meadows. Marty Petrovic says that progress is being made (at the DOT) towards regulations that might prohibit the use of 96 for this traffic.
0-17-57 reports from representatives.
Ed Hetherington first (hard to hear)
Bruce Vann DPW
Jason Fulton - Fire Department
Tammy Morse - Village Clerk
Tammy McMillen
(Tammy Morse said that the Village Office will be close the Friday before Labor Day
0-43-41 reports from commissioners,
Chris Thomas - Fire and EMS - Chris reports that lately we've been having trouble getting a full compliment of volunteers for the nigh time shift, so we are adding two paid (per Diem) shifts 6pm - midnight on Friday and Saturday nights, in hope that the volunteers will be better able to handle the remaining shifts.
Debbie Nottke - community liaison - farmer's market is growing.. It has grown from 24 to 36 vendors this year
1-9-34 correspondence
Sally Baines? re bricks Main St. Project
1-17-30 Tom Ferritti - police report
1-31-43 Chris Bond 5K run - street closures Sunday October 19th -
1-37-58 Fire and EMS budget 2008 - $319,000 2009 - there is a proposed $25,000 increase.
1-47-50 This exchange puzzles me,
John Hrubos - "So, after that public meeting where all the volunteers got up and said that they want to be volunteers, and it was revealed that we have something like 32 qualified human beings, the bottom line is we are exactly where we where before..."
Chris Thomas "No, it's actually gotten worse, in that we have two or three volunteers leaving....."
John Hrubos "So the whole notion of we shouldn't go with the paid for service because it would affect the volunteers is a mute point because we don't have any volunteers"
Chris Thomas " I've said that from the beginning"
I understand that we have a problem covering all of the overnight shifts with volunteers, but it seems to me that Chris and John should acknowledge the value of the coverage that we do have. Chris says that in the first 6 months of this year 42% of overnight calls went to Bangs. That means 58% of them were answered by the volunteers. We should work to increase that percentage, via recruitment and incentives, and thank the volunteers for their good work.
2-01-00 Chris says that we have had a verbal agreement with the Fire Company for 40 years, and that we should now go to a written contract. The Village pays for equipment and training, and the facility, and so, they would like a written contract with performance standards. Does this mean that if the volunteers don't answer a call, that the Village might sue the Fire Company? I don't know, maybe a contract is a good idea, to formalize what the Village expects in return for their investment, but it seems odd that a company that relies upon volunteers, might face retribution if they didn't live up to expectations.
2-02-20 Chris says that there have been times lately, when an EMT is there ready to go, and nobody shows up to drive the ambulance. He says that it's pretty clear where this is headed. It's not clear to me. Is he referring to going to 24/7 paid staff, or shutting down our ambulance service and letting Bangs answer all calls?
2-08-00 Jim Mason asks some good questions, and Jason answers them. Apparently there are several levels of training. EMT,ALS, etc. The state says that to answer a call you need and EMS, and a driver minimum? An EMT needs 200 hours of training?
2-12-00 Ron McLean says that this is too big a job for the Village Board and the Fire Chief, and that he and Jim Mason are willing to help. Chris says yeah but....... John says no, no, take the help. Good idea.
2-22-00 Jim Mason says that the Board is concentrating primarily on the financial aspects of the EMS service, and they probably should be, but we have to look at the bigger picture and ask what is happening that is making volunteers turn away. I hope that he and Ron and Chris and Jason etc, can form a committee and study this. I have my own theories. Chris has mentioned that it is largely the fact that many people are having to work longer and longer hours to make ends meet and are too tired to volunteer. This is certainly part of it. I think another aspect is the leadership of our country. After 9/11 Bush told us to go shopping, he didn't ask for any sacrifice. We are fighting the "global war on terror" by borrowing the money from future generations. Cheney tells us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. How long has it been since you heard a President say something like "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" Reagan said "the most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm hear to help". We are about to elect a new president who could be the kind of inspirational leader that can make a big difference in our attitude about civic responsibility and service. He will need to be pushed by the grassroots if this is to happen. This isn't going to be easy, but the kind of spirit that inspires people to serve the community as a volunteer is the kind of spirit that will turn this country around. Accepting that privatization is inevitable is the kind of spirit that will keep us on this course towards collapse of a social safety net.
2-22-30 Chris says that he wanted to use some of the funds from billing to offer retirement benefits, and tax credits and college tuition assistance to volunteers. Let's remember that if we had gone to billing we would have collected funds from cost shifting. This would have been funny money. I am willing to accept the concept that our ambulance service is going to cost us more in taxes largely as a result of increased training requirements. It would be wise to spend tax payer dollars on these incentives that Chris wanted to fund with funny money, because that would be cheaper than paying for 24/7 paid staff.
2-24-00 Rordan says that there are two separate issues here. The Board has fiduciary responsibility to manage budgets and departments efficiently, but deeper philosophical questions of why people do or don't volunteer is outside of their responsibilities. Is this true? Is it too much too ask of our trustees to look at the big picture and act as civic leaders?
2-25-00 Marty asks if we want the Task Force to reconvene to study all this. Jason says that he would like to be taken off of it. John says he wants a completely new task force with new eyes and ears. Rordan says that it should be citizens only (?)
2-30-00 Chris says that this is a problem all over, not just in Trumansburg and that State Senators and Congressman were looking at ways to address the problem, but that it wasn't working. These efforts have just begun, they take time. Let's not be so pessimistic.
2-41-00 Chris says that the board could have just gone ahead and gone to billing and to hell with all you naysayers. (basically) He says that he was trying (with billing) to find a way to maintain the service without losing it to a fully private company where the Village would lose control over quality of care. He said that he wished that the volunteers could see that, but, well , they didn't. I think he is unaware that the volunteers see things differently than he does, and that they think that there are other ways of maintaining the company in it's present form.
2-45-00 John says that the Village should start charging groups who use the Fire Hall, and that it's unfair to ask the volunteers to clean the floor after these events. Hold on there John. I have been to many Back to Democracy events in the Fire Hall, and I have cleaned the floor myself several times. I don't think we are leaving a mess, and most of us that come to these meetings, pay taxes in the Fire District. I consider the Fire Hall to be a part of the commons. I think would be a mistake to charge. If we use a small amount of extra electricity, or paper products or whatever, then raise my taxes 10 cents a year.
2-50-00 Chris says, again, that it is absolutely imperative to move to a written contract. It seems a little ironic, that we would look for ways to increase volunteerism and retention while at the same time say that we are going to crack down on them for not performing to our expectations.
2-51-40 Marty asks Jason if he is willing to take responsibility for this committee that may or may not involve Jim Mason and Ron McLean. Jason says "I don't want to have anything to do with it" Marty says will kind of put it back in your court. Sounds like a great team.
2-56-20 I (Allen) say to Marty - I don't know why you want to throw it into Jason's court, you should move to form the committee here and now, while you've got Ron and Jim who are willing to be a part of it. Jim says there's a problem with that because there has been a lot of information collected over many months and he doesn't want to have to start from scratch.... Jim said that he would like to start by meeting with Jason and discussing all this.
3-00-00 Bills to pay.......
3-11-00 John Hrubos said that he would like to pursue getting the health department to release the village from the moratorium on extending the water mains. Good idea.
3-12-50 public comment period #2 I ask John about the proposed 24 unit development that he mentioned earlier. He said it was possibly going to be between Pennsylvania Avenue and South Street. Steve Bauman (sp?) possible developer. He is a partner with John Rancich (sp?) who is looking into the Carrowmoor development on Rt. 79 near Ithaca. http://www.carrowmoor.com/
3-14-00 Jaime Saine (Free Press) asks if the Village is no longer going to pursue third party billing and Chris said that's right (basically)
3-16-50 John Hrubos makes a motion to adjourn into executive session to discuss a personnel issue. I asked Tammy Morse the next day what that was all about and she said she was not at liberty to discuss that at this time. That's a cliffhanger folks, stay tuned until next month.......
here's a link to the mp3 file
0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds - I arrived with the meeting in progress. First public comment period. Tom Prisloe and Tim Johnson spoke in favor of a 4 way stop sign at Congress St. and Seneca Rd. and possibly also at Washington St. and Seneca Rd. in order to promote safety and slow people down. Chris Thomas lives on that intersection, and he made a motion to install the signs. This passed unanimously.
0-12-25 - my public comment - Pulitzer prize winning author Ron Suskind's new book The Way of The World http://www.ronsuskind.com/thewayoftheworld/ came out last week, and reveals the existence of a forged letter that was written at the insistence of the White House, in the fall of 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, when they were embarrassed at their failure to find WMD. They had this forgery written in the hand of Sadam's former intelligence chief, and dated fall of 2001. This letter was supposed to be provide proof that Sadam was receiving shipments of yellow cake uranium from Niger, and that the mastermind of the 9/11 attack was trained in Iraq. This letter was reported on in the major papers, and provided cover for the administration's ongoing slaughter in Iraq. When over 4000 Americans and 1 million Iraqis die based on fabricated evidence to justify war, the fabricators are guilty of murder, and high crimes and misdemeanors. These crimes have implications all over the world, including our little village. It is irresponsible to continue to fail to pass the resolution to encourage investigation of these crimes.
0-13-25 Ron McLean wants to know what and when something will be done about the tractor trailers hauling garbage up to Seneca Meadows. Marty Petrovic says that progress is being made (at the DOT) towards regulations that might prohibit the use of 96 for this traffic.
0-17-57 reports from representatives.
Ed Hetherington first (hard to hear)
Bruce Vann DPW
Jason Fulton - Fire Department
Tammy Morse - Village Clerk
Tammy McMillen
(Tammy Morse said that the Village Office will be close the Friday before Labor Day
0-43-41 reports from commissioners,
Chris Thomas - Fire and EMS - Chris reports that lately we've been having trouble getting a full compliment of volunteers for the nigh time shift, so we are adding two paid (per Diem) shifts 6pm - midnight on Friday and Saturday nights, in hope that the volunteers will be better able to handle the remaining shifts.
Debbie Nottke - community liaison - farmer's market is growing.. It has grown from 24 to 36 vendors this year
1-9-34 correspondence
Sally Baines? re bricks Main St. Project
1-17-30 Tom Ferritti - police report
1-31-43 Chris Bond 5K run - street closures Sunday October 19th -
1-37-58 Fire and EMS budget 2008 - $319,000 2009 - there is a proposed $25,000 increase.
1-47-50 This exchange puzzles me,
John Hrubos - "So, after that public meeting where all the volunteers got up and said that they want to be volunteers, and it was revealed that we have something like 32 qualified human beings, the bottom line is we are exactly where we where before..."
Chris Thomas "No, it's actually gotten worse, in that we have two or three volunteers leaving....."
John Hrubos "So the whole notion of we shouldn't go with the paid for service because it would affect the volunteers is a mute point because we don't have any volunteers"
Chris Thomas " I've said that from the beginning"
I understand that we have a problem covering all of the overnight shifts with volunteers, but it seems to me that Chris and John should acknowledge the value of the coverage that we do have. Chris says that in the first 6 months of this year 42% of overnight calls went to Bangs. That means 58% of them were answered by the volunteers. We should work to increase that percentage, via recruitment and incentives, and thank the volunteers for their good work.
2-01-00 Chris says that we have had a verbal agreement with the Fire Company for 40 years, and that we should now go to a written contract. The Village pays for equipment and training, and the facility, and so, they would like a written contract with performance standards. Does this mean that if the volunteers don't answer a call, that the Village might sue the Fire Company? I don't know, maybe a contract is a good idea, to formalize what the Village expects in return for their investment, but it seems odd that a company that relies upon volunteers, might face retribution if they didn't live up to expectations.
2-02-20 Chris says that there have been times lately, when an EMT is there ready to go, and nobody shows up to drive the ambulance. He says that it's pretty clear where this is headed. It's not clear to me. Is he referring to going to 24/7 paid staff, or shutting down our ambulance service and letting Bangs answer all calls?
2-08-00 Jim Mason asks some good questions, and Jason answers them. Apparently there are several levels of training. EMT,ALS, etc. The state says that to answer a call you need and EMS, and a driver minimum? An EMT needs 200 hours of training?
2-12-00 Ron McLean says that this is too big a job for the Village Board and the Fire Chief, and that he and Jim Mason are willing to help. Chris says yeah but....... John says no, no, take the help. Good idea.
2-22-00 Jim Mason says that the Board is concentrating primarily on the financial aspects of the EMS service, and they probably should be, but we have to look at the bigger picture and ask what is happening that is making volunteers turn away. I hope that he and Ron and Chris and Jason etc, can form a committee and study this. I have my own theories. Chris has mentioned that it is largely the fact that many people are having to work longer and longer hours to make ends meet and are too tired to volunteer. This is certainly part of it. I think another aspect is the leadership of our country. After 9/11 Bush told us to go shopping, he didn't ask for any sacrifice. We are fighting the "global war on terror" by borrowing the money from future generations. Cheney tells us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. How long has it been since you heard a President say something like "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" Reagan said "the most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm hear to help". We are about to elect a new president who could be the kind of inspirational leader that can make a big difference in our attitude about civic responsibility and service. He will need to be pushed by the grassroots if this is to happen. This isn't going to be easy, but the kind of spirit that inspires people to serve the community as a volunteer is the kind of spirit that will turn this country around. Accepting that privatization is inevitable is the kind of spirit that will keep us on this course towards collapse of a social safety net.
2-22-30 Chris says that he wanted to use some of the funds from billing to offer retirement benefits, and tax credits and college tuition assistance to volunteers. Let's remember that if we had gone to billing we would have collected funds from cost shifting. This would have been funny money. I am willing to accept the concept that our ambulance service is going to cost us more in taxes largely as a result of increased training requirements. It would be wise to spend tax payer dollars on these incentives that Chris wanted to fund with funny money, because that would be cheaper than paying for 24/7 paid staff.
2-24-00 Rordan says that there are two separate issues here. The Board has fiduciary responsibility to manage budgets and departments efficiently, but deeper philosophical questions of why people do or don't volunteer is outside of their responsibilities. Is this true? Is it too much too ask of our trustees to look at the big picture and act as civic leaders?
2-25-00 Marty asks if we want the Task Force to reconvene to study all this. Jason says that he would like to be taken off of it. John says he wants a completely new task force with new eyes and ears. Rordan says that it should be citizens only (?)
2-30-00 Chris says that this is a problem all over, not just in Trumansburg and that State Senators and Congressman were looking at ways to address the problem, but that it wasn't working. These efforts have just begun, they take time. Let's not be so pessimistic.
2-41-00 Chris says that the board could have just gone ahead and gone to billing and to hell with all you naysayers. (basically) He says that he was trying (with billing) to find a way to maintain the service without losing it to a fully private company where the Village would lose control over quality of care. He said that he wished that the volunteers could see that, but, well , they didn't. I think he is unaware that the volunteers see things differently than he does, and that they think that there are other ways of maintaining the company in it's present form.
2-45-00 John says that the Village should start charging groups who use the Fire Hall, and that it's unfair to ask the volunteers to clean the floor after these events. Hold on there John. I have been to many Back to Democracy events in the Fire Hall, and I have cleaned the floor myself several times. I don't think we are leaving a mess, and most of us that come to these meetings, pay taxes in the Fire District. I consider the Fire Hall to be a part of the commons. I think would be a mistake to charge. If we use a small amount of extra electricity, or paper products or whatever, then raise my taxes 10 cents a year.
2-50-00 Chris says, again, that it is absolutely imperative to move to a written contract. It seems a little ironic, that we would look for ways to increase volunteerism and retention while at the same time say that we are going to crack down on them for not performing to our expectations.
2-51-40 Marty asks Jason if he is willing to take responsibility for this committee that may or may not involve Jim Mason and Ron McLean. Jason says "I don't want to have anything to do with it" Marty says will kind of put it back in your court. Sounds like a great team.
2-56-20 I (Allen) say to Marty - I don't know why you want to throw it into Jason's court, you should move to form the committee here and now, while you've got Ron and Jim who are willing to be a part of it. Jim says there's a problem with that because there has been a lot of information collected over many months and he doesn't want to have to start from scratch.... Jim said that he would like to start by meeting with Jason and discussing all this.
3-00-00 Bills to pay.......
3-11-00 John Hrubos said that he would like to pursue getting the health department to release the village from the moratorium on extending the water mains. Good idea.
3-12-50 public comment period #2 I ask John about the proposed 24 unit development that he mentioned earlier. He said it was possibly going to be between Pennsylvania Avenue and South Street. Steve Bauman (sp?) possible developer. He is a partner with John Rancich (sp?) who is looking into the Carrowmoor development on Rt. 79 near Ithaca. http://www.carrowmoor.com/
3-14-00 Jaime Saine (Free Press) asks if the Village is no longer going to pursue third party billing and Chris said that's right (basically)
3-16-50 John Hrubos makes a motion to adjourn into executive session to discuss a personnel issue. I asked Tammy Morse the next day what that was all about and she said she was not at liberty to discuss that at this time. That's a cliffhanger folks, stay tuned until next month.......
Saturday, August 2, 2008
Village Board Meeting 7/14/08
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's a LINK TO THE AUDIO MP3 FILE
0 hours - 0 minutes - 0 seconds All board members present except John Hrubos. The meeting started with an executive session, which means they kick the audience out for, in this case, about 15 minutes. It was a very nice night though, and Chief Ferritti entertained Liz Thomas and I with the story of his having to shoot the rabid fox that would not let go of the 9 year old girl on Prospect Street! Yikes!
0-03-0 first public comment period. I, Allen Carstensen, attempt to get the board members to proclaim where they stand on the ambulance privatization issue.
This is from our Ulysses Democratic Party Platform,
Our local governments should be committed to taking all actions necessary to maintain and enhance the quality of life for residents of the town, while managing programs in an efficient and fiscally responsible manner.
I would argue that risking the lives of the residents for the questionable tax break of $25/resident is contrary to the intent of the platform.
then there's this
Transparency of our governmental process is essential to maintain a democratic society, as are informed voters. Elected officials must encourage open discussion and information sharing regarding all public matters, both among themselves and with the citizenry.
I would argue that keeping their positions on the ambulance issue secret until the 11th hour does not encourage open discussion, and is contrary to the intent of the platform. An advantage of politics at the level of a small village or town, is that citizens can participate directly by talking to their representatives. Unfortunately, after many months of considering this plan, very few have declared their intentions, and therefore, citizen participation is discouraged.
After my appeal, Mayor Petrovic said he's still analyzing. Debbie Nottke said that she continues to get lots of phone calls, and is also still weighing both sides. We all know where Chris Thomas stands. Rordan Hart remained mum. Hrubos wasn't there. Not much progress.
0-06-30 Ron McLean - Whig St. Asks where this privatization scheme stands, what the schedule for a decision is, and when will the community get a chance to participate in the form of a committee as suggested during the public hearing. Chris Thomas ignores the idea of a citizen panel, and says that there will be a "full board discussion" of the issue during the August meeting. I ask "You have mentioned in the past, the possibility of voting on it in August. Are you now thinking that this is too early?" Chris dodges the question.
0-08-30 Jim Mason Larchmont Drive - former member of the Fire Department and an EMT. ''I'm still concerned, why we are not making the best use of the volunteers that we have. We have more certified EMT's and Paramedics in the Fire Company today, than there has been in the history of the company. Why are they not willing to respond?" (he is referring to the high percentage of calls that are deferred to Bangs during the overnight shift.) "Why are we paying for training for people to get their paramedic certification, and then go to work for Bangs Ambulance Service, not the Village of Trumansburg? This is not fair, it's not fair to our taxpayers, and they should be bound by contract to work in Trumansburg, if we are going to pay for the training" "Your point #8 in FAQ - Village website- states there aren't enough trained volunteers, I don't think that's true, I think we are just not using them right. There's got to be a reason why people are not willing to respond. Is it burn out? Are we wearing them down with what we used to call nuisance calls? The kind of calls where if it were our kids we would have taken them in the car, but today we call the ambulance? So we don't stop to think, the public doesn't stop to think, that when we call the ambulance, we are disrupting a lot of people's lives, and maybe there's some public education that needs to be brought forth so people can stop and think, do I really need this, is it a true emergency, or can I deal with it and take responsibility for it myself? Those are things I think we need to discuss. I'd be willing to meet with the board and talk through these things if my background and my experience could be of any use to you. I spent 16 years as a county legislator, and I chaired it for 4 years, and I chaired the public safety commission for 11 years, and I worked with the fire, and ems personnel all over the county, very closely on a day to day basis"
Mayor Petrovic says "That's a very good offer to help" I agree, and if I were on the board I would propose a resolution to form a committee with Mr. Mason as it's chair that would be composed of several board members, and volunteers, and citizens, and the meetings would be open to the public. The structure of the public hearing, and these Village Board meetings, is not conducive to a back and forth discussion, that is needed to resolve our differences.
Mr. Mason's point about the nuisance calls, is a good point, but I get the impression, from talking to several of the volunteers, that there are a very small number of people, that are abusing the system. They may not be playing with a full deck. They may be hard to reach with a public information campaign. I don't think they are parents that are calling the ambulance when a kid falls off his bike. It's more like they are uneducated, uninformed medicaid patients with chronic medical problems such as diabetes. I think there are several ways of dealing with this problem, and I think Mr. Mason is correct that it needs to be dealt with for the moral of the volunteers. Who would want to be called out in the middle of the night for the same handful of people that are abusing the system? This is not what the volunteers signed up for.
0-12-00 Liz Thomas speaks in favor of forming a committee with representatives from the Town and Village Boards, and EMS people, and residents from both sides of the issue, to study the proposed billing plan further.
Liz mentioned that the August TB meeting will consider a contract with the SPCA. We currently are (I think) the only town in the county to refuse to contract with the SPCA for dog control, in spite of the fact that we benefit from their animal cruelty services and their adoption services etc.
For more information from Liz, here's a link to her latest "Informing Ulysses"
The Comprehensive Plan is nearing completion. Links to the draft can be found here. Now is the time for input. Soon it will be too late.
0-28-10 Ed Hetherington -building inspector - hard to hear
0-31-06 Tom Ferretti's Police report
0-36-16 Jason Fulton's Fire Dept report
0-43-0 Tammy Morse - clerk's report
0-47-28 Tammy McMillan - treasurer's report
0-50-30 Mayor Petrovic's report
0-56-30 Fire and EMS - Chris Thomas
1-10-43 Community liaison - Debbie Nottke
1-15-50 correspondence - Auble water and sewer bill / Save A Lot for rent or sale
Mayor Petrovic mentions the possibility of incentivizing business to use the Save A Lot building. I think we should incentivize Byrne Dairy to buy or rent it.
1-33-50 Discussion of purchase of the Telephone Company Building. I'm writing this a couple weeks after the meeting. The latest news in the Free Press is that the board has voted to go ahead with the purchase.
1-44-39 extending zoning moratorium on the Auble property
1-55-24 zoning revision committee - Sarah Adams is interested in serving - two residents are needed. Marty and Chris from the board will serve. Tim Hamiltion and Bob Brown from the ZBA will serve. They will interview for the two resident spots.
2-04-50 Paying bills
2-10-40 Second public comment period. From yours truly. I got out my calculator and figured out that it would take 333 years for the potential savings from going to ambulance billing, to equal what I personally am going to have to pay for the Iraq War. I find it ironic that we are trying so hard to save so little, when the elephant in the room is the criminality of the Bush administration.
2-16-40 Geoffrey Hart's comment. He objects to my continuing effort to get the Board to pass a resolution to encourage our representatives to investigate impeachment of Bush and Cheney. He claims that I have contradicted myself and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously. He quotes my blog (trumansburgimpeachment.blogspot.com) of July 07 "The impeachment of a president tends to be a partisan issue, but it shouldn't be"
then a month later "Pelosi said that the American people turned against Congressional Republicans in the 90's for impeaching Clinton, so she worries that they would judge her Democratic Party harshly if she were to allow impeachment to proceed now. She underestimates us. We realized that the impeachment of Clinton was purely political. The Republicans saw the opportunity to capitalize on a sex scandal to promote their political agenda. The impeachment of Bush and Cheney is necessary to protect against serious abuse of power and the subversion of constitutional government. "
then at a Village Board meeting in November - " One last item for Trustees Thomas and Hrubos. You are Democrats. Here's an important memo if you want your party to succeed. Nine attempts have been made to impeach a president in US history. None of these attempts actually resulted in removal of a president from office. They were very important none the less. In all nine instances the party that attempted to impeach, either held or increased it's majority in Congress, and every time that an opposition party attempted to impeach, they took the presidency at the next election. If you don't believe that impeachment can possibly succeed in the time we have left, that is not a reason to ignore your oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Stand up for justice. The rewards are great for you and your party and the country."
Mr. Hart says I'm clearly invoking party loyalty in the most recent of these three quotes and finds this a huge contradiction, and says that I have forfeited my right to be taken seriously.
I try to defend myself and Chris Thomas interrupts and suggests we take it outside. Which we do. I find no contradiction in the three quotes that Mr. Hart took the time to find. In the last one, I am appealing to Thomas and Hrubos to stand up for justice, and the Constitution, and the Democratic Party, all at the same time. In an ideal world, there is no conflict in doing all at the same time, because the goals of the Democratic Party align nicely with justice and the Constitution. The same can not be said of the Republican Party, whose goals align nicely with Corporate control, increasing the wealth of the rich, and expanding the American empire. The Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for partisan reasons. They felt that they could accomplish their goals faster with complete fascists like Bush and Cheney, and they were right. The Democrats should impeach Bush and Cheney on behalf of we the people. To be perfectly honest, the Democratic Party often disgusts me. I am not a partisan. I am a Democrat, because they are by far, the lesser of two evils, and the way the game is rigged, they are our only realistic hope until we can get campaign finance reform and fair elections.
2-20-50 Meeting is adjourned, and Mr. Hart and I continue our discussion, first inside, and then outside in the parking lot. I wrote to Mr. Hart, and he said that he does not object to my posting this.
At one point Mr. Hart says, in defense of Bush's warrantless surveillance program, that FDR did the same thing during WW2. I was skeptical. I wrote this later and sent it to him -
I've tried to find info on FDR infringing on our Fourth Amendment rights during WW2, and I've not found much. There may have been an increase in government surveillance of citizens, but it wasn't codified. Bush, with his "Fisa Amendments Act" and the "Patriot Act" and the "Military Commissions Act", has actually passed legislation which takes habeas corpus and posse comitatus away, and legalizes warrant-less surveillance.
FDR never suspended habeas corpus, even when under attack by very powerful armies, that would make our current adversaries look like amateurs. James Madison never suspended habeas corpus even when the British Navy (the most powerful military force in the world at the time) sailed across the Atlantic, came ashore, marched to Washington, and burned down the White House. Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
If you could document illegal FDR spying, I'd like to see that, but even more interesting would be if you could show that it helped us win the war. I'll bet that what helped us win the war, much more than any domestic spying, would be the decency that was characteristic of FDR's administration, and completely lacking in the Bush Administration. Bush condones torture. Many German soldiers surrendered to US troops in WW2, because we had a reputation for good treatment of prisoners. America had a reputation as a beacon of liberty then, and now the world fears and distrusts and hates us for torturing prisoners in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and Bagram. (Not to mention incinerating thousands of their loved ones)
We know what happens when a population is manipulated by fear tactics to "give up essential liberty for temporary security". This is exactly what happened to the good Germans in the 30's.
At one point Mr. Hart says that the NY Times recently wrote that no amount of recounting would have changed the results in Florida in 2000. I said please send that to me, because I have heard just the opposite. http://www.bushwatch.com/gorebush.htm
Then Mr. Hart gets all religious on me. I'm out of my element here, but I think I'm seeing more fundamental contradictions than Mr. Hart was accusing me of during the meeting. He claims that the Muslims are trying to take over the world, I say chill out, he says the Koran is terribly violent, I say so is the Bible, he admits the Old Testament is a bit harsh, but when Jesus came along he said we (father, son, holy ghost) are introducing a new covenant, a covenant of love, a covenant which has no prescriptions for punishment, except excommunication. He says if you're a Christian you follow the laws of Christ. Love your neighbor, be good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you.... OK. This sounds good. But Mr. Hart is an advocate for continuing the horrific killing of Muslims in the Middle East. He excuses this contradiction by saying the Muslims are trying to kill us, and we are acting in self defense. This seems absurd if you look at the score card. Islam 3000 on 9/11, and 5000 US soldiers since then, VS America - 1 million dead Muslims and 4 million refugees! Our imperialistic wars are bankrupting us, while we increase the incidents of terrorism worldwide. Christ had a much better idea. He would advocate for more humanitarian aid, and development aid, and honoring our commitment to the United Nations Millennium Goals. This would be far more effective in reducing terrorism, and far less expensive at the same time. It's just common sense.
Here's a LINK TO THE AUDIO MP3 FILE
0 hours - 0 minutes - 0 seconds All board members present except John Hrubos. The meeting started with an executive session, which means they kick the audience out for, in this case, about 15 minutes. It was a very nice night though, and Chief Ferritti entertained Liz Thomas and I with the story of his having to shoot the rabid fox that would not let go of the 9 year old girl on Prospect Street! Yikes!
0-03-0 first public comment period. I, Allen Carstensen, attempt to get the board members to proclaim where they stand on the ambulance privatization issue.
This is from our Ulysses Democratic Party Platform,
Our local governments should be committed to taking all actions necessary to maintain and enhance the quality of life for residents of the town, while managing programs in an efficient and fiscally responsible manner.
I would argue that risking the lives of the residents for the questionable tax break of $25/resident is contrary to the intent of the platform.
then there's this
Transparency of our governmental process is essential to maintain a democratic society, as are informed voters. Elected officials must encourage open discussion and information sharing regarding all public matters, both among themselves and with the citizenry.
I would argue that keeping their positions on the ambulance issue secret until the 11th hour does not encourage open discussion, and is contrary to the intent of the platform. An advantage of politics at the level of a small village or town, is that citizens can participate directly by talking to their representatives. Unfortunately, after many months of considering this plan, very few have declared their intentions, and therefore, citizen participation is discouraged.
After my appeal, Mayor Petrovic said he's still analyzing. Debbie Nottke said that she continues to get lots of phone calls, and is also still weighing both sides. We all know where Chris Thomas stands. Rordan Hart remained mum. Hrubos wasn't there. Not much progress.
0-06-30 Ron McLean - Whig St. Asks where this privatization scheme stands, what the schedule for a decision is, and when will the community get a chance to participate in the form of a committee as suggested during the public hearing. Chris Thomas ignores the idea of a citizen panel, and says that there will be a "full board discussion" of the issue during the August meeting. I ask "You have mentioned in the past, the possibility of voting on it in August. Are you now thinking that this is too early?" Chris dodges the question.
0-08-30 Jim Mason Larchmont Drive - former member of the Fire Department and an EMT. ''I'm still concerned, why we are not making the best use of the volunteers that we have. We have more certified EMT's and Paramedics in the Fire Company today, than there has been in the history of the company. Why are they not willing to respond?" (he is referring to the high percentage of calls that are deferred to Bangs during the overnight shift.) "Why are we paying for training for people to get their paramedic certification, and then go to work for Bangs Ambulance Service, not the Village of Trumansburg? This is not fair, it's not fair to our taxpayers, and they should be bound by contract to work in Trumansburg, if we are going to pay for the training" "Your point #8 in FAQ - Village website- states there aren't enough trained volunteers, I don't think that's true, I think we are just not using them right. There's got to be a reason why people are not willing to respond. Is it burn out? Are we wearing them down with what we used to call nuisance calls? The kind of calls where if it were our kids we would have taken them in the car, but today we call the ambulance? So we don't stop to think, the public doesn't stop to think, that when we call the ambulance, we are disrupting a lot of people's lives, and maybe there's some public education that needs to be brought forth so people can stop and think, do I really need this, is it a true emergency, or can I deal with it and take responsibility for it myself? Those are things I think we need to discuss. I'd be willing to meet with the board and talk through these things if my background and my experience could be of any use to you. I spent 16 years as a county legislator, and I chaired it for 4 years, and I chaired the public safety commission for 11 years, and I worked with the fire, and ems personnel all over the county, very closely on a day to day basis"
Mayor Petrovic says "That's a very good offer to help" I agree, and if I were on the board I would propose a resolution to form a committee with Mr. Mason as it's chair that would be composed of several board members, and volunteers, and citizens, and the meetings would be open to the public. The structure of the public hearing, and these Village Board meetings, is not conducive to a back and forth discussion, that is needed to resolve our differences.
Mr. Mason's point about the nuisance calls, is a good point, but I get the impression, from talking to several of the volunteers, that there are a very small number of people, that are abusing the system. They may not be playing with a full deck. They may be hard to reach with a public information campaign. I don't think they are parents that are calling the ambulance when a kid falls off his bike. It's more like they are uneducated, uninformed medicaid patients with chronic medical problems such as diabetes. I think there are several ways of dealing with this problem, and I think Mr. Mason is correct that it needs to be dealt with for the moral of the volunteers. Who would want to be called out in the middle of the night for the same handful of people that are abusing the system? This is not what the volunteers signed up for.
0-12-00 Liz Thomas speaks in favor of forming a committee with representatives from the Town and Village Boards, and EMS people, and residents from both sides of the issue, to study the proposed billing plan further.
Liz mentioned that the August TB meeting will consider a contract with the SPCA. We currently are (I think) the only town in the county to refuse to contract with the SPCA for dog control, in spite of the fact that we benefit from their animal cruelty services and their adoption services etc.
For more information from Liz, here's a link to her latest "Informing Ulysses"
The Comprehensive Plan is nearing completion. Links to the draft can be found here. Now is the time for input. Soon it will be too late.
0-28-10 Ed Hetherington -building inspector - hard to hear
0-31-06 Tom Ferretti's Police report
0-36-16 Jason Fulton's Fire Dept report
0-43-0 Tammy Morse - clerk's report
0-47-28 Tammy McMillan - treasurer's report
0-50-30 Mayor Petrovic's report
0-56-30 Fire and EMS - Chris Thomas
1-10-43 Community liaison - Debbie Nottke
1-15-50 correspondence - Auble water and sewer bill / Save A Lot for rent or sale
Mayor Petrovic mentions the possibility of incentivizing business to use the Save A Lot building. I think we should incentivize Byrne Dairy to buy or rent it.
1-33-50 Discussion of purchase of the Telephone Company Building. I'm writing this a couple weeks after the meeting. The latest news in the Free Press is that the board has voted to go ahead with the purchase.
1-44-39 extending zoning moratorium on the Auble property
1-55-24 zoning revision committee - Sarah Adams is interested in serving - two residents are needed. Marty and Chris from the board will serve. Tim Hamiltion and Bob Brown from the ZBA will serve. They will interview for the two resident spots.
2-04-50 Paying bills
2-10-40 Second public comment period. From yours truly. I got out my calculator and figured out that it would take 333 years for the potential savings from going to ambulance billing, to equal what I personally am going to have to pay for the Iraq War. I find it ironic that we are trying so hard to save so little, when the elephant in the room is the criminality of the Bush administration.
2-16-40 Geoffrey Hart's comment. He objects to my continuing effort to get the Board to pass a resolution to encourage our representatives to investigate impeachment of Bush and Cheney. He claims that I have contradicted myself and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously. He quotes my blog (trumansburgimpeachment.blogspot.com) of July 07 "The impeachment of a president tends to be a partisan issue, but it shouldn't be"
then a month later "Pelosi said that the American people turned against Congressional Republicans in the 90's for impeaching Clinton, so she worries that they would judge her Democratic Party harshly if she were to allow impeachment to proceed now. She underestimates us. We realized that the impeachment of Clinton was purely political. The Republicans saw the opportunity to capitalize on a sex scandal to promote their political agenda. The impeachment of Bush and Cheney is necessary to protect against serious abuse of power and the subversion of constitutional government. "
then at a Village Board meeting in November - " One last item for Trustees Thomas and Hrubos. You are Democrats. Here's an important memo if you want your party to succeed. Nine attempts have been made to impeach a president in US history. None of these attempts actually resulted in removal of a president from office. They were very important none the less. In all nine instances the party that attempted to impeach, either held or increased it's majority in Congress, and every time that an opposition party attempted to impeach, they took the presidency at the next election. If you don't believe that impeachment can possibly succeed in the time we have left, that is not a reason to ignore your oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Stand up for justice. The rewards are great for you and your party and the country."
Mr. Hart says I'm clearly invoking party loyalty in the most recent of these three quotes and finds this a huge contradiction, and says that I have forfeited my right to be taken seriously.
I try to defend myself and Chris Thomas interrupts and suggests we take it outside. Which we do. I find no contradiction in the three quotes that Mr. Hart took the time to find. In the last one, I am appealing to Thomas and Hrubos to stand up for justice, and the Constitution, and the Democratic Party, all at the same time. In an ideal world, there is no conflict in doing all at the same time, because the goals of the Democratic Party align nicely with justice and the Constitution. The same can not be said of the Republican Party, whose goals align nicely with Corporate control, increasing the wealth of the rich, and expanding the American empire. The Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for partisan reasons. They felt that they could accomplish their goals faster with complete fascists like Bush and Cheney, and they were right. The Democrats should impeach Bush and Cheney on behalf of we the people. To be perfectly honest, the Democratic Party often disgusts me. I am not a partisan. I am a Democrat, because they are by far, the lesser of two evils, and the way the game is rigged, they are our only realistic hope until we can get campaign finance reform and fair elections.
2-20-50 Meeting is adjourned, and Mr. Hart and I continue our discussion, first inside, and then outside in the parking lot. I wrote to Mr. Hart, and he said that he does not object to my posting this.
At one point Mr. Hart says, in defense of Bush's warrantless surveillance program, that FDR did the same thing during WW2. I was skeptical. I wrote this later and sent it to him -
I've tried to find info on FDR infringing on our Fourth Amendment rights during WW2, and I've not found much. There may have been an increase in government surveillance of citizens, but it wasn't codified. Bush, with his "Fisa Amendments Act" and the "Patriot Act" and the "Military Commissions Act", has actually passed legislation which takes habeas corpus and posse comitatus away, and legalizes warrant-less surveillance.
FDR never suspended habeas corpus, even when under attack by very powerful armies, that would make our current adversaries look like amateurs. James Madison never suspended habeas corpus even when the British Navy (the most powerful military force in the world at the time) sailed across the Atlantic, came ashore, marched to Washington, and burned down the White House. Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
If you could document illegal FDR spying, I'd like to see that, but even more interesting would be if you could show that it helped us win the war. I'll bet that what helped us win the war, much more than any domestic spying, would be the decency that was characteristic of FDR's administration, and completely lacking in the Bush Administration. Bush condones torture. Many German soldiers surrendered to US troops in WW2, because we had a reputation for good treatment of prisoners. America had a reputation as a beacon of liberty then, and now the world fears and distrusts and hates us for torturing prisoners in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and Bagram. (Not to mention incinerating thousands of their loved ones)
We know what happens when a population is manipulated by fear tactics to "give up essential liberty for temporary security". This is exactly what happened to the good Germans in the 30's.
At one point Mr. Hart says that the NY Times recently wrote that no amount of recounting would have changed the results in Florida in 2000. I said please send that to me, because I have heard just the opposite. http://www.bushwatch.com/gorebush.htm
Then Mr. Hart gets all religious on me. I'm out of my element here, but I think I'm seeing more fundamental contradictions than Mr. Hart was accusing me of during the meeting. He claims that the Muslims are trying to take over the world, I say chill out, he says the Koran is terribly violent, I say so is the Bible, he admits the Old Testament is a bit harsh, but when Jesus came along he said we (father, son, holy ghost) are introducing a new covenant, a covenant of love, a covenant which has no prescriptions for punishment, except excommunication. He says if you're a Christian you follow the laws of Christ. Love your neighbor, be good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you.... OK. This sounds good. But Mr. Hart is an advocate for continuing the horrific killing of Muslims in the Middle East. He excuses this contradiction by saying the Muslims are trying to kill us, and we are acting in self defense. This seems absurd if you look at the score card. Islam 3000 on 9/11, and 5000 US soldiers since then, VS America - 1 million dead Muslims and 4 million refugees! Our imperialistic wars are bankrupting us, while we increase the incidents of terrorism worldwide. Christ had a much better idea. He would advocate for more humanitarian aid, and development aid, and honoring our commitment to the United Nations Millennium Goals. This would be far more effective in reducing terrorism, and far less expensive at the same time. It's just common sense.
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