You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
here's a link to the mp3 file
0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds - I arrived with the meeting in progress. First public comment period. Tom Prisloe and Tim Johnson spoke in favor of a 4 way stop sign at Congress St. and Seneca Rd. and possibly also at Washington St. and Seneca Rd. in order to promote safety and slow people down. Chris Thomas lives on that intersection, and he made a motion to install the signs. This passed unanimously.
0-12-25 - my public comment - Pulitzer prize winning author Ron Suskind's new book The Way of The World http://www.ronsuskind.com/thewayoftheworld/ came out last week, and reveals the existence of a forged letter that was written at the insistence of the White House, in the fall of 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, when they were embarrassed at their failure to find WMD. They had this forgery written in the hand of Sadam's former intelligence chief, and dated fall of 2001. This letter was supposed to be provide proof that Sadam was receiving shipments of yellow cake uranium from Niger, and that the mastermind of the 9/11 attack was trained in Iraq. This letter was reported on in the major papers, and provided cover for the administration's ongoing slaughter in Iraq. When over 4000 Americans and 1 million Iraqis die based on fabricated evidence to justify war, the fabricators are guilty of murder, and high crimes and misdemeanors. These crimes have implications all over the world, including our little village. It is irresponsible to continue to fail to pass the resolution to encourage investigation of these crimes.
0-13-25 Ron McLean wants to know what and when something will be done about the tractor trailers hauling garbage up to Seneca Meadows. Marty Petrovic says that progress is being made (at the DOT) towards regulations that might prohibit the use of 96 for this traffic.
0-17-57 reports from representatives.
Ed Hetherington first (hard to hear)
Bruce Vann DPW
Jason Fulton - Fire Department
Tammy Morse - Village Clerk
Tammy McMillen
(Tammy Morse said that the Village Office will be close the Friday before Labor Day
0-43-41 reports from commissioners,
Chris Thomas - Fire and EMS - Chris reports that lately we've been having trouble getting a full compliment of volunteers for the nigh time shift, so we are adding two paid (per Diem) shifts 6pm - midnight on Friday and Saturday nights, in hope that the volunteers will be better able to handle the remaining shifts.
Debbie Nottke - community liaison - farmer's market is growing.. It has grown from 24 to 36 vendors this year
1-9-34 correspondence
Sally Baines? re bricks Main St. Project
1-17-30 Tom Ferritti - police report
1-31-43 Chris Bond 5K run - street closures Sunday October 19th -
1-37-58 Fire and EMS budget 2008 - $319,000 2009 - there is a proposed $25,000 increase.
1-47-50 This exchange puzzles me,
John Hrubos - "So, after that public meeting where all the volunteers got up and said that they want to be volunteers, and it was revealed that we have something like 32 qualified human beings, the bottom line is we are exactly where we where before..."
Chris Thomas "No, it's actually gotten worse, in that we have two or three volunteers leaving....."
John Hrubos "So the whole notion of we shouldn't go with the paid for service because it would affect the volunteers is a mute point because we don't have any volunteers"
Chris Thomas " I've said that from the beginning"
I understand that we have a problem covering all of the overnight shifts with volunteers, but it seems to me that Chris and John should acknowledge the value of the coverage that we do have. Chris says that in the first 6 months of this year 42% of overnight calls went to Bangs. That means 58% of them were answered by the volunteers. We should work to increase that percentage, via recruitment and incentives, and thank the volunteers for their good work.
2-01-00 Chris says that we have had a verbal agreement with the Fire Company for 40 years, and that we should now go to a written contract. The Village pays for equipment and training, and the facility, and so, they would like a written contract with performance standards. Does this mean that if the volunteers don't answer a call, that the Village might sue the Fire Company? I don't know, maybe a contract is a good idea, to formalize what the Village expects in return for their investment, but it seems odd that a company that relies upon volunteers, might face retribution if they didn't live up to expectations.
2-02-20 Chris says that there have been times lately, when an EMT is there ready to go, and nobody shows up to drive the ambulance. He says that it's pretty clear where this is headed. It's not clear to me. Is he referring to going to 24/7 paid staff, or shutting down our ambulance service and letting Bangs answer all calls?
2-08-00 Jim Mason asks some good questions, and Jason answers them. Apparently there are several levels of training. EMT,ALS, etc. The state says that to answer a call you need and EMS, and a driver minimum? An EMT needs 200 hours of training?
2-12-00 Ron McLean says that this is too big a job for the Village Board and the Fire Chief, and that he and Jim Mason are willing to help. Chris says yeah but....... John says no, no, take the help. Good idea.
2-22-00 Jim Mason says that the Board is concentrating primarily on the financial aspects of the EMS service, and they probably should be, but we have to look at the bigger picture and ask what is happening that is making volunteers turn away. I hope that he and Ron and Chris and Jason etc, can form a committee and study this. I have my own theories. Chris has mentioned that it is largely the fact that many people are having to work longer and longer hours to make ends meet and are too tired to volunteer. This is certainly part of it. I think another aspect is the leadership of our country. After 9/11 Bush told us to go shopping, he didn't ask for any sacrifice. We are fighting the "global war on terror" by borrowing the money from future generations. Cheney tells us that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. How long has it been since you heard a President say something like "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" Reagan said "the most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm hear to help". We are about to elect a new president who could be the kind of inspirational leader that can make a big difference in our attitude about civic responsibility and service. He will need to be pushed by the grassroots if this is to happen. This isn't going to be easy, but the kind of spirit that inspires people to serve the community as a volunteer is the kind of spirit that will turn this country around. Accepting that privatization is inevitable is the kind of spirit that will keep us on this course towards collapse of a social safety net.
2-22-30 Chris says that he wanted to use some of the funds from billing to offer retirement benefits, and tax credits and college tuition assistance to volunteers. Let's remember that if we had gone to billing we would have collected funds from cost shifting. This would have been funny money. I am willing to accept the concept that our ambulance service is going to cost us more in taxes largely as a result of increased training requirements. It would be wise to spend tax payer dollars on these incentives that Chris wanted to fund with funny money, because that would be cheaper than paying for 24/7 paid staff.
2-24-00 Rordan says that there are two separate issues here. The Board has fiduciary responsibility to manage budgets and departments efficiently, but deeper philosophical questions of why people do or don't volunteer is outside of their responsibilities. Is this true? Is it too much too ask of our trustees to look at the big picture and act as civic leaders?
2-25-00 Marty asks if we want the Task Force to reconvene to study all this. Jason says that he would like to be taken off of it. John says he wants a completely new task force with new eyes and ears. Rordan says that it should be citizens only (?)
2-30-00 Chris says that this is a problem all over, not just in Trumansburg and that State Senators and Congressman were looking at ways to address the problem, but that it wasn't working. These efforts have just begun, they take time. Let's not be so pessimistic.
2-41-00 Chris says that the board could have just gone ahead and gone to billing and to hell with all you naysayers. (basically) He says that he was trying (with billing) to find a way to maintain the service without losing it to a fully private company where the Village would lose control over quality of care. He said that he wished that the volunteers could see that, but, well , they didn't. I think he is unaware that the volunteers see things differently than he does, and that they think that there are other ways of maintaining the company in it's present form.
2-45-00 John says that the Village should start charging groups who use the Fire Hall, and that it's unfair to ask the volunteers to clean the floor after these events. Hold on there John. I have been to many Back to Democracy events in the Fire Hall, and I have cleaned the floor myself several times. I don't think we are leaving a mess, and most of us that come to these meetings, pay taxes in the Fire District. I consider the Fire Hall to be a part of the commons. I think would be a mistake to charge. If we use a small amount of extra electricity, or paper products or whatever, then raise my taxes 10 cents a year.
2-50-00 Chris says, again, that it is absolutely imperative to move to a written contract. It seems a little ironic, that we would look for ways to increase volunteerism and retention while at the same time say that we are going to crack down on them for not performing to our expectations.
2-51-40 Marty asks Jason if he is willing to take responsibility for this committee that may or may not involve Jim Mason and Ron McLean. Jason says "I don't want to have anything to do with it" Marty says will kind of put it back in your court. Sounds like a great team.
2-56-20 I (Allen) say to Marty - I don't know why you want to throw it into Jason's court, you should move to form the committee here and now, while you've got Ron and Jim who are willing to be a part of it. Jim says there's a problem with that because there has been a lot of information collected over many months and he doesn't want to have to start from scratch.... Jim said that he would like to start by meeting with Jason and discussing all this.
3-00-00 Bills to pay.......
3-11-00 John Hrubos said that he would like to pursue getting the health department to release the village from the moratorium on extending the water mains. Good idea.
3-12-50 public comment period #2 I ask John about the proposed 24 unit development that he mentioned earlier. He said it was possibly going to be between Pennsylvania Avenue and South Street. Steve Bauman (sp?) possible developer. He is a partner with John Rancich (sp?) who is looking into the Carrowmoor development on Rt. 79 near Ithaca. http://www.carrowmoor.com/
3-14-00 Jaime Saine (Free Press) asks if the Village is no longer going to pursue third party billing and Chris said that's right (basically)
3-16-50 John Hrubos makes a motion to adjourn into executive session to discuss a personnel issue. I asked Tammy Morse the next day what that was all about and she said she was not at liberty to discuss that at this time. That's a cliffhanger folks, stay tuned until next month.......
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Saturday, August 2, 2008
Village Board Meeting 7/14/08
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's a LINK TO THE AUDIO MP3 FILE
0 hours - 0 minutes - 0 seconds All board members present except John Hrubos. The meeting started with an executive session, which means they kick the audience out for, in this case, about 15 minutes. It was a very nice night though, and Chief Ferritti entertained Liz Thomas and I with the story of his having to shoot the rabid fox that would not let go of the 9 year old girl on Prospect Street! Yikes!
0-03-0 first public comment period. I, Allen Carstensen, attempt to get the board members to proclaim where they stand on the ambulance privatization issue.
This is from our Ulysses Democratic Party Platform,
Our local governments should be committed to taking all actions necessary to maintain and enhance the quality of life for residents of the town, while managing programs in an efficient and fiscally responsible manner.
I would argue that risking the lives of the residents for the questionable tax break of $25/resident is contrary to the intent of the platform.
then there's this
Transparency of our governmental process is essential to maintain a democratic society, as are informed voters. Elected officials must encourage open discussion and information sharing regarding all public matters, both among themselves and with the citizenry.
I would argue that keeping their positions on the ambulance issue secret until the 11th hour does not encourage open discussion, and is contrary to the intent of the platform. An advantage of politics at the level of a small village or town, is that citizens can participate directly by talking to their representatives. Unfortunately, after many months of considering this plan, very few have declared their intentions, and therefore, citizen participation is discouraged.
After my appeal, Mayor Petrovic said he's still analyzing. Debbie Nottke said that she continues to get lots of phone calls, and is also still weighing both sides. We all know where Chris Thomas stands. Rordan Hart remained mum. Hrubos wasn't there. Not much progress.
0-06-30 Ron McLean - Whig St. Asks where this privatization scheme stands, what the schedule for a decision is, and when will the community get a chance to participate in the form of a committee as suggested during the public hearing. Chris Thomas ignores the idea of a citizen panel, and says that there will be a "full board discussion" of the issue during the August meeting. I ask "You have mentioned in the past, the possibility of voting on it in August. Are you now thinking that this is too early?" Chris dodges the question.
0-08-30 Jim Mason Larchmont Drive - former member of the Fire Department and an EMT. ''I'm still concerned, why we are not making the best use of the volunteers that we have. We have more certified EMT's and Paramedics in the Fire Company today, than there has been in the history of the company. Why are they not willing to respond?" (he is referring to the high percentage of calls that are deferred to Bangs during the overnight shift.) "Why are we paying for training for people to get their paramedic certification, and then go to work for Bangs Ambulance Service, not the Village of Trumansburg? This is not fair, it's not fair to our taxpayers, and they should be bound by contract to work in Trumansburg, if we are going to pay for the training" "Your point #8 in FAQ - Village website- states there aren't enough trained volunteers, I don't think that's true, I think we are just not using them right. There's got to be a reason why people are not willing to respond. Is it burn out? Are we wearing them down with what we used to call nuisance calls? The kind of calls where if it were our kids we would have taken them in the car, but today we call the ambulance? So we don't stop to think, the public doesn't stop to think, that when we call the ambulance, we are disrupting a lot of people's lives, and maybe there's some public education that needs to be brought forth so people can stop and think, do I really need this, is it a true emergency, or can I deal with it and take responsibility for it myself? Those are things I think we need to discuss. I'd be willing to meet with the board and talk through these things if my background and my experience could be of any use to you. I spent 16 years as a county legislator, and I chaired it for 4 years, and I chaired the public safety commission for 11 years, and I worked with the fire, and ems personnel all over the county, very closely on a day to day basis"
Mayor Petrovic says "That's a very good offer to help" I agree, and if I were on the board I would propose a resolution to form a committee with Mr. Mason as it's chair that would be composed of several board members, and volunteers, and citizens, and the meetings would be open to the public. The structure of the public hearing, and these Village Board meetings, is not conducive to a back and forth discussion, that is needed to resolve our differences.
Mr. Mason's point about the nuisance calls, is a good point, but I get the impression, from talking to several of the volunteers, that there are a very small number of people, that are abusing the system. They may not be playing with a full deck. They may be hard to reach with a public information campaign. I don't think they are parents that are calling the ambulance when a kid falls off his bike. It's more like they are uneducated, uninformed medicaid patients with chronic medical problems such as diabetes. I think there are several ways of dealing with this problem, and I think Mr. Mason is correct that it needs to be dealt with for the moral of the volunteers. Who would want to be called out in the middle of the night for the same handful of people that are abusing the system? This is not what the volunteers signed up for.
0-12-00 Liz Thomas speaks in favor of forming a committee with representatives from the Town and Village Boards, and EMS people, and residents from both sides of the issue, to study the proposed billing plan further.
Liz mentioned that the August TB meeting will consider a contract with the SPCA. We currently are (I think) the only town in the county to refuse to contract with the SPCA for dog control, in spite of the fact that we benefit from their animal cruelty services and their adoption services etc.
For more information from Liz, here's a link to her latest "Informing Ulysses"
The Comprehensive Plan is nearing completion. Links to the draft can be found here. Now is the time for input. Soon it will be too late.
0-28-10 Ed Hetherington -building inspector - hard to hear
0-31-06 Tom Ferretti's Police report
0-36-16 Jason Fulton's Fire Dept report
0-43-0 Tammy Morse - clerk's report
0-47-28 Tammy McMillan - treasurer's report
0-50-30 Mayor Petrovic's report
0-56-30 Fire and EMS - Chris Thomas
1-10-43 Community liaison - Debbie Nottke
1-15-50 correspondence - Auble water and sewer bill / Save A Lot for rent or sale
Mayor Petrovic mentions the possibility of incentivizing business to use the Save A Lot building. I think we should incentivize Byrne Dairy to buy or rent it.
1-33-50 Discussion of purchase of the Telephone Company Building. I'm writing this a couple weeks after the meeting. The latest news in the Free Press is that the board has voted to go ahead with the purchase.
1-44-39 extending zoning moratorium on the Auble property
1-55-24 zoning revision committee - Sarah Adams is interested in serving - two residents are needed. Marty and Chris from the board will serve. Tim Hamiltion and Bob Brown from the ZBA will serve. They will interview for the two resident spots.
2-04-50 Paying bills
2-10-40 Second public comment period. From yours truly. I got out my calculator and figured out that it would take 333 years for the potential savings from going to ambulance billing, to equal what I personally am going to have to pay for the Iraq War. I find it ironic that we are trying so hard to save so little, when the elephant in the room is the criminality of the Bush administration.
2-16-40 Geoffrey Hart's comment. He objects to my continuing effort to get the Board to pass a resolution to encourage our representatives to investigate impeachment of Bush and Cheney. He claims that I have contradicted myself and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously. He quotes my blog (trumansburgimpeachment.blogspot.com) of July 07 "The impeachment of a president tends to be a partisan issue, but it shouldn't be"
then a month later "Pelosi said that the American people turned against Congressional Republicans in the 90's for impeaching Clinton, so she worries that they would judge her Democratic Party harshly if she were to allow impeachment to proceed now. She underestimates us. We realized that the impeachment of Clinton was purely political. The Republicans saw the opportunity to capitalize on a sex scandal to promote their political agenda. The impeachment of Bush and Cheney is necessary to protect against serious abuse of power and the subversion of constitutional government. "
then at a Village Board meeting in November - " One last item for Trustees Thomas and Hrubos. You are Democrats. Here's an important memo if you want your party to succeed. Nine attempts have been made to impeach a president in US history. None of these attempts actually resulted in removal of a president from office. They were very important none the less. In all nine instances the party that attempted to impeach, either held or increased it's majority in Congress, and every time that an opposition party attempted to impeach, they took the presidency at the next election. If you don't believe that impeachment can possibly succeed in the time we have left, that is not a reason to ignore your oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Stand up for justice. The rewards are great for you and your party and the country."
Mr. Hart says I'm clearly invoking party loyalty in the most recent of these three quotes and finds this a huge contradiction, and says that I have forfeited my right to be taken seriously.
I try to defend myself and Chris Thomas interrupts and suggests we take it outside. Which we do. I find no contradiction in the three quotes that Mr. Hart took the time to find. In the last one, I am appealing to Thomas and Hrubos to stand up for justice, and the Constitution, and the Democratic Party, all at the same time. In an ideal world, there is no conflict in doing all at the same time, because the goals of the Democratic Party align nicely with justice and the Constitution. The same can not be said of the Republican Party, whose goals align nicely with Corporate control, increasing the wealth of the rich, and expanding the American empire. The Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for partisan reasons. They felt that they could accomplish their goals faster with complete fascists like Bush and Cheney, and they were right. The Democrats should impeach Bush and Cheney on behalf of we the people. To be perfectly honest, the Democratic Party often disgusts me. I am not a partisan. I am a Democrat, because they are by far, the lesser of two evils, and the way the game is rigged, they are our only realistic hope until we can get campaign finance reform and fair elections.
2-20-50 Meeting is adjourned, and Mr. Hart and I continue our discussion, first inside, and then outside in the parking lot. I wrote to Mr. Hart, and he said that he does not object to my posting this.
At one point Mr. Hart says, in defense of Bush's warrantless surveillance program, that FDR did the same thing during WW2. I was skeptical. I wrote this later and sent it to him -
I've tried to find info on FDR infringing on our Fourth Amendment rights during WW2, and I've not found much. There may have been an increase in government surveillance of citizens, but it wasn't codified. Bush, with his "Fisa Amendments Act" and the "Patriot Act" and the "Military Commissions Act", has actually passed legislation which takes habeas corpus and posse comitatus away, and legalizes warrant-less surveillance.
FDR never suspended habeas corpus, even when under attack by very powerful armies, that would make our current adversaries look like amateurs. James Madison never suspended habeas corpus even when the British Navy (the most powerful military force in the world at the time) sailed across the Atlantic, came ashore, marched to Washington, and burned down the White House. Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
If you could document illegal FDR spying, I'd like to see that, but even more interesting would be if you could show that it helped us win the war. I'll bet that what helped us win the war, much more than any domestic spying, would be the decency that was characteristic of FDR's administration, and completely lacking in the Bush Administration. Bush condones torture. Many German soldiers surrendered to US troops in WW2, because we had a reputation for good treatment of prisoners. America had a reputation as a beacon of liberty then, and now the world fears and distrusts and hates us for torturing prisoners in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and Bagram. (Not to mention incinerating thousands of their loved ones)
We know what happens when a population is manipulated by fear tactics to "give up essential liberty for temporary security". This is exactly what happened to the good Germans in the 30's.
At one point Mr. Hart says that the NY Times recently wrote that no amount of recounting would have changed the results in Florida in 2000. I said please send that to me, because I have heard just the opposite. http://www.bushwatch.com/gorebush.htm
Then Mr. Hart gets all religious on me. I'm out of my element here, but I think I'm seeing more fundamental contradictions than Mr. Hart was accusing me of during the meeting. He claims that the Muslims are trying to take over the world, I say chill out, he says the Koran is terribly violent, I say so is the Bible, he admits the Old Testament is a bit harsh, but when Jesus came along he said we (father, son, holy ghost) are introducing a new covenant, a covenant of love, a covenant which has no prescriptions for punishment, except excommunication. He says if you're a Christian you follow the laws of Christ. Love your neighbor, be good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you.... OK. This sounds good. But Mr. Hart is an advocate for continuing the horrific killing of Muslims in the Middle East. He excuses this contradiction by saying the Muslims are trying to kill us, and we are acting in self defense. This seems absurd if you look at the score card. Islam 3000 on 9/11, and 5000 US soldiers since then, VS America - 1 million dead Muslims and 4 million refugees! Our imperialistic wars are bankrupting us, while we increase the incidents of terrorism worldwide. Christ had a much better idea. He would advocate for more humanitarian aid, and development aid, and honoring our commitment to the United Nations Millennium Goals. This would be far more effective in reducing terrorism, and far less expensive at the same time. It's just common sense.
Here's a LINK TO THE AUDIO MP3 FILE
0 hours - 0 minutes - 0 seconds All board members present except John Hrubos. The meeting started with an executive session, which means they kick the audience out for, in this case, about 15 minutes. It was a very nice night though, and Chief Ferritti entertained Liz Thomas and I with the story of his having to shoot the rabid fox that would not let go of the 9 year old girl on Prospect Street! Yikes!
0-03-0 first public comment period. I, Allen Carstensen, attempt to get the board members to proclaim where they stand on the ambulance privatization issue.
This is from our Ulysses Democratic Party Platform,
Our local governments should be committed to taking all actions necessary to maintain and enhance the quality of life for residents of the town, while managing programs in an efficient and fiscally responsible manner.
I would argue that risking the lives of the residents for the questionable tax break of $25/resident is contrary to the intent of the platform.
then there's this
Transparency of our governmental process is essential to maintain a democratic society, as are informed voters. Elected officials must encourage open discussion and information sharing regarding all public matters, both among themselves and with the citizenry.
I would argue that keeping their positions on the ambulance issue secret until the 11th hour does not encourage open discussion, and is contrary to the intent of the platform. An advantage of politics at the level of a small village or town, is that citizens can participate directly by talking to their representatives. Unfortunately, after many months of considering this plan, very few have declared their intentions, and therefore, citizen participation is discouraged.
After my appeal, Mayor Petrovic said he's still analyzing. Debbie Nottke said that she continues to get lots of phone calls, and is also still weighing both sides. We all know where Chris Thomas stands. Rordan Hart remained mum. Hrubos wasn't there. Not much progress.
0-06-30 Ron McLean - Whig St. Asks where this privatization scheme stands, what the schedule for a decision is, and when will the community get a chance to participate in the form of a committee as suggested during the public hearing. Chris Thomas ignores the idea of a citizen panel, and says that there will be a "full board discussion" of the issue during the August meeting. I ask "You have mentioned in the past, the possibility of voting on it in August. Are you now thinking that this is too early?" Chris dodges the question.
0-08-30 Jim Mason Larchmont Drive - former member of the Fire Department and an EMT. ''I'm still concerned, why we are not making the best use of the volunteers that we have. We have more certified EMT's and Paramedics in the Fire Company today, than there has been in the history of the company. Why are they not willing to respond?" (he is referring to the high percentage of calls that are deferred to Bangs during the overnight shift.) "Why are we paying for training for people to get their paramedic certification, and then go to work for Bangs Ambulance Service, not the Village of Trumansburg? This is not fair, it's not fair to our taxpayers, and they should be bound by contract to work in Trumansburg, if we are going to pay for the training" "Your point #8 in FAQ - Village website- states there aren't enough trained volunteers, I don't think that's true, I think we are just not using them right. There's got to be a reason why people are not willing to respond. Is it burn out? Are we wearing them down with what we used to call nuisance calls? The kind of calls where if it were our kids we would have taken them in the car, but today we call the ambulance? So we don't stop to think, the public doesn't stop to think, that when we call the ambulance, we are disrupting a lot of people's lives, and maybe there's some public education that needs to be brought forth so people can stop and think, do I really need this, is it a true emergency, or can I deal with it and take responsibility for it myself? Those are things I think we need to discuss. I'd be willing to meet with the board and talk through these things if my background and my experience could be of any use to you. I spent 16 years as a county legislator, and I chaired it for 4 years, and I chaired the public safety commission for 11 years, and I worked with the fire, and ems personnel all over the county, very closely on a day to day basis"
Mayor Petrovic says "That's a very good offer to help" I agree, and if I were on the board I would propose a resolution to form a committee with Mr. Mason as it's chair that would be composed of several board members, and volunteers, and citizens, and the meetings would be open to the public. The structure of the public hearing, and these Village Board meetings, is not conducive to a back and forth discussion, that is needed to resolve our differences.
Mr. Mason's point about the nuisance calls, is a good point, but I get the impression, from talking to several of the volunteers, that there are a very small number of people, that are abusing the system. They may not be playing with a full deck. They may be hard to reach with a public information campaign. I don't think they are parents that are calling the ambulance when a kid falls off his bike. It's more like they are uneducated, uninformed medicaid patients with chronic medical problems such as diabetes. I think there are several ways of dealing with this problem, and I think Mr. Mason is correct that it needs to be dealt with for the moral of the volunteers. Who would want to be called out in the middle of the night for the same handful of people that are abusing the system? This is not what the volunteers signed up for.
0-12-00 Liz Thomas speaks in favor of forming a committee with representatives from the Town and Village Boards, and EMS people, and residents from both sides of the issue, to study the proposed billing plan further.
Liz mentioned that the August TB meeting will consider a contract with the SPCA. We currently are (I think) the only town in the county to refuse to contract with the SPCA for dog control, in spite of the fact that we benefit from their animal cruelty services and their adoption services etc.
For more information from Liz, here's a link to her latest "Informing Ulysses"
The Comprehensive Plan is nearing completion. Links to the draft can be found here. Now is the time for input. Soon it will be too late.
0-28-10 Ed Hetherington -building inspector - hard to hear
0-31-06 Tom Ferretti's Police report
0-36-16 Jason Fulton's Fire Dept report
0-43-0 Tammy Morse - clerk's report
0-47-28 Tammy McMillan - treasurer's report
0-50-30 Mayor Petrovic's report
0-56-30 Fire and EMS - Chris Thomas
1-10-43 Community liaison - Debbie Nottke
1-15-50 correspondence - Auble water and sewer bill / Save A Lot for rent or sale
Mayor Petrovic mentions the possibility of incentivizing business to use the Save A Lot building. I think we should incentivize Byrne Dairy to buy or rent it.
1-33-50 Discussion of purchase of the Telephone Company Building. I'm writing this a couple weeks after the meeting. The latest news in the Free Press is that the board has voted to go ahead with the purchase.
1-44-39 extending zoning moratorium on the Auble property
1-55-24 zoning revision committee - Sarah Adams is interested in serving - two residents are needed. Marty and Chris from the board will serve. Tim Hamiltion and Bob Brown from the ZBA will serve. They will interview for the two resident spots.
2-04-50 Paying bills
2-10-40 Second public comment period. From yours truly. I got out my calculator and figured out that it would take 333 years for the potential savings from going to ambulance billing, to equal what I personally am going to have to pay for the Iraq War. I find it ironic that we are trying so hard to save so little, when the elephant in the room is the criminality of the Bush administration.
2-16-40 Geoffrey Hart's comment. He objects to my continuing effort to get the Board to pass a resolution to encourage our representatives to investigate impeachment of Bush and Cheney. He claims that I have contradicted myself and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously. He quotes my blog (trumansburgimpeachment.blogspot.com) of July 07 "The impeachment of a president tends to be a partisan issue, but it shouldn't be"
then a month later "Pelosi said that the American people turned against Congressional Republicans in the 90's for impeaching Clinton, so she worries that they would judge her Democratic Party harshly if she were to allow impeachment to proceed now. She underestimates us. We realized that the impeachment of Clinton was purely political. The Republicans saw the opportunity to capitalize on a sex scandal to promote their political agenda. The impeachment of Bush and Cheney is necessary to protect against serious abuse of power and the subversion of constitutional government. "
then at a Village Board meeting in November - " One last item for Trustees Thomas and Hrubos. You are Democrats. Here's an important memo if you want your party to succeed. Nine attempts have been made to impeach a president in US history. None of these attempts actually resulted in removal of a president from office. They were very important none the less. In all nine instances the party that attempted to impeach, either held or increased it's majority in Congress, and every time that an opposition party attempted to impeach, they took the presidency at the next election. If you don't believe that impeachment can possibly succeed in the time we have left, that is not a reason to ignore your oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Stand up for justice. The rewards are great for you and your party and the country."
Mr. Hart says I'm clearly invoking party loyalty in the most recent of these three quotes and finds this a huge contradiction, and says that I have forfeited my right to be taken seriously.
I try to defend myself and Chris Thomas interrupts and suggests we take it outside. Which we do. I find no contradiction in the three quotes that Mr. Hart took the time to find. In the last one, I am appealing to Thomas and Hrubos to stand up for justice, and the Constitution, and the Democratic Party, all at the same time. In an ideal world, there is no conflict in doing all at the same time, because the goals of the Democratic Party align nicely with justice and the Constitution. The same can not be said of the Republican Party, whose goals align nicely with Corporate control, increasing the wealth of the rich, and expanding the American empire. The Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for partisan reasons. They felt that they could accomplish their goals faster with complete fascists like Bush and Cheney, and they were right. The Democrats should impeach Bush and Cheney on behalf of we the people. To be perfectly honest, the Democratic Party often disgusts me. I am not a partisan. I am a Democrat, because they are by far, the lesser of two evils, and the way the game is rigged, they are our only realistic hope until we can get campaign finance reform and fair elections.
2-20-50 Meeting is adjourned, and Mr. Hart and I continue our discussion, first inside, and then outside in the parking lot. I wrote to Mr. Hart, and he said that he does not object to my posting this.
At one point Mr. Hart says, in defense of Bush's warrantless surveillance program, that FDR did the same thing during WW2. I was skeptical. I wrote this later and sent it to him -
I've tried to find info on FDR infringing on our Fourth Amendment rights during WW2, and I've not found much. There may have been an increase in government surveillance of citizens, but it wasn't codified. Bush, with his "Fisa Amendments Act" and the "Patriot Act" and the "Military Commissions Act", has actually passed legislation which takes habeas corpus and posse comitatus away, and legalizes warrant-less surveillance.
FDR never suspended habeas corpus, even when under attack by very powerful armies, that would make our current adversaries look like amateurs. James Madison never suspended habeas corpus even when the British Navy (the most powerful military force in the world at the time) sailed across the Atlantic, came ashore, marched to Washington, and burned down the White House. Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
If you could document illegal FDR spying, I'd like to see that, but even more interesting would be if you could show that it helped us win the war. I'll bet that what helped us win the war, much more than any domestic spying, would be the decency that was characteristic of FDR's administration, and completely lacking in the Bush Administration. Bush condones torture. Many German soldiers surrendered to US troops in WW2, because we had a reputation for good treatment of prisoners. America had a reputation as a beacon of liberty then, and now the world fears and distrusts and hates us for torturing prisoners in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and Bagram. (Not to mention incinerating thousands of their loved ones)
We know what happens when a population is manipulated by fear tactics to "give up essential liberty for temporary security". This is exactly what happened to the good Germans in the 30's.
At one point Mr. Hart says that the NY Times recently wrote that no amount of recounting would have changed the results in Florida in 2000. I said please send that to me, because I have heard just the opposite. http://www.bushwatch.com/gorebush.htm
Then Mr. Hart gets all religious on me. I'm out of my element here, but I think I'm seeing more fundamental contradictions than Mr. Hart was accusing me of during the meeting. He claims that the Muslims are trying to take over the world, I say chill out, he says the Koran is terribly violent, I say so is the Bible, he admits the Old Testament is a bit harsh, but when Jesus came along he said we (father, son, holy ghost) are introducing a new covenant, a covenant of love, a covenant which has no prescriptions for punishment, except excommunication. He says if you're a Christian you follow the laws of Christ. Love your neighbor, be good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you.... OK. This sounds good. But Mr. Hart is an advocate for continuing the horrific killing of Muslims in the Middle East. He excuses this contradiction by saying the Muslims are trying to kill us, and we are acting in self defense. This seems absurd if you look at the score card. Islam 3000 on 9/11, and 5000 US soldiers since then, VS America - 1 million dead Muslims and 4 million refugees! Our imperialistic wars are bankrupting us, while we increase the incidents of terrorism worldwide. Christ had a much better idea. He would advocate for more humanitarian aid, and development aid, and honoring our commitment to the United Nations Millennium Goals. This would be far more effective in reducing terrorism, and far less expensive at the same time. It's just common sense.
Saturday, July 12, 2008
Town Board Meeting 7/8/08
I'll try to get the list of people present later.
There was a long discussion about parking and camping around the Grassroots Festival, an exciting statement by Sue Polvorde, and important discussion on the Ambulance/EMS privatization issue. Please go to my other blog trumansburgambulance.blogspot.com for more on this.
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's the audio link
There was a long discussion about parking and camping around the Grassroots Festival, an exciting statement by Sue Polvorde, and important discussion on the Ambulance/EMS privatization issue. Please go to my other blog trumansburgambulance.blogspot.com for more on this.
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's the audio link
0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds (o-0-o) - discussion about fee increase for dog licenses
0-16-0 - local law #2 traffic law - long discussion of parking and camping on Rabbit Run Road.
0-43-12 - planning board report
0-44-15 - Sue Polvorde Comprehensive Plan Report, and she reads a statement about inappropriate behavior of Supervisor Austic at the last meeting
0-49-33 - Geoffrey Hart wonders why Doug Austic tolerates criticism! (reminds me of a famous quote from George Bush "this would be a lot easier if it was a dictatorship, just as long as I'm the dictator" and it makes me wonder why the Village Board rules for public comment periods say that people should not direct criticism toward particular board members. Isn't that a violation of our 1st amendment rights?) Fortunately, Austic says it doesn't bother him.
0-49-53 - Highway Superintendents report.
0-50-50 - Town Clerk report
0-51-57 - Operating statement, Dick Coogan's report
0-53-10 - Water Advisory Board appointments
1-05-02 - Back to local law 2 about Rabbit Run. Liz Thomas argues in favor of the Board having a say in what roads are marked in what way, in-order to avoid a scenario where our community will be perceived as unwelcoming to the Grassroots Festival.
1-18-40 - They pass a resolution to post Rabbit Run
1-20-08 - Ambulance issue. Liz Thomas introduces the resolution below for discussion (not for voting because it would need to be made available earlier)
Town of Ulysses Resolution Regarding Funding of the Village of Trumansburg Ambulance/EMS Service.
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses has been notified of the recommendation of the Village of Trumansburg's EMS Task Force, to begin a policy of billing all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service in order to recover funds from insured residents and,
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses provides a large share of the funds for the operation of the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service and,
Whereas, the Village of Trumansburg has requested a letter or resolution expressing support or opposition to this plan and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan would move us in a direction opposite to the wishes of many of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is unclear where the recovered insurance funds will be dedicated, whether to a retirement fund for Fire Department volunteers or to a tax break for residents, and if so, the amount.
Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents and,
Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve and,
Whereas, billing for ambulance services could negatively impact the level of donations to the ambulance service.
Therefore, be it hereby resolved that this board stands in opposition to the current plan to hire a third party billing company to bill all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Trumansburg ambulance/EMS service unless those who have no insurance are guaranteed EMS/ambulance service at no charge and,
Further, be it resolved that this board feels that the funds that the Town of Ulysses provides to the Village of Trumansburg for the ambulance/EMS service are well spent, and we wish to continue to guarantee service to all residents in need of emergency free of charge other than the payments made through taxes.
Finally, be it resolved that a copy of this resolution be sent to the Village of Trumansburg.
1-28-29 - Doug Austic " I think there are a couple of things in your resolution that probably are not true"
Rod Ferentino "Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents - That's not true - at all - ok - you can't say that - I don't agree with that at all. "
This is key. If Rod truly doesn't believe that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of his constituents, then he isn't listening to the nine volunteers that spoke up at the public hearing. He later admits that in his first hand experience (He is a volunteer himself) more than half of potential recipients of care, are leery of accepting care now, because of a fear of big bills. The average citizen is unaware of the billing policies for our ambulance. They don't realize that they pay for it with their taxes, and that there is no charge for the care. The volunteers that spoke at the hearing said that if we go to billing, they will no longer be able to say, as they do now, that there will be no charge. "please don't tie our hands like that" one of them said. If we tie their hands - a life could be lost. Further, if we go to billing, it will be reported in the papers, and someone will realize one day soon, that if they call 911 when they are having chest pains, that they will get a bill, and they won't make the call. If they then die, the Village will never even know, that they are responsible for the death. This is obvious, and obviously the most important issue here. I don't know why we bother arguing about all of the small stuff surrounding this issue. If we accept this reality, the argument should be over.
1-34-00 - Chris Thomas again states that when Bangs comes up here, that the recipient has to pay Bangs on top of having to pay their private insurance premiums. Uh, if they've got insurance then the insurance company should pay Bangs, right?
1-35-22 - Rod Ferrinto objects to "Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents" Rod says there is no evidence of this. Chris Thomas also likes to make this argument. At the public hearing Chris said,
"And the argument that the money collected from these insurance companies will immediately and entirely be billed back to our community in the form of premiums, is a red herring not backed up by the least bit of information or research, but instead by loosely connected circumstances."
Well, Chris, nobody said "immediately and entirely", but yes, they will largely, and eventually be billed back to us. Here's some research for you; William McGuire is the CEO of United Health, one of the largest HMO's in the country. He makes 8 million/year plus bonuses, and has amassed 1.6 billion in stock options, one of the largest stock option fortunes in history. Bill gets around in a private jet. Let's look at some business basics. Bill has to balance income, expenses, and profit. If expenses go up (more people billing him) he has a tough choice to make. He can either raise income (premiums), or cut profit. Based on a quick look at his net worth, I think I know which one he has been choosing. Chris can obfuscate with talk about this account and that account and actuarial tables, but I'm not buying it. If we start billing, premiums will go up. There is no free lunch.
1-36-30 - Rod objects to "Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve" Rod objects, in spite of the fact that many of the volunteers at the public hearing stated exactly that. Norm Hummel said, at the public hearing that he would quit. Rod said "Norm's not going to quit" I'm not sure Rod is the best listener. He thinks that volunteerism might actually go up under this plan. I've talked to many of the volunteers, and Rod is the only one to hold this opinion.
1-43-12 - Doug Austic "what I'm saying is, the insurance companies are not going to reduce their premiums to the people in the town of Ulysses because they don't have to pay for the ambulance." It would take a great deal of research to know exactly how much every insurance company is charging and exactly how they each arrive at how they charge for what they charge. I'm afraid I don't have the time for that research, but it seems obvious to me that the insurance companies have large quantities of data on all of the residents of our fire district, including frequency of payments to ambulance companies. This data is easily sorted by zip code, so it would seem obvious that our premiums should be based upon these payments plus the profit margins for the various companies. If my assumptions are correct, then how could increased ambulance payments by these companies not result in increased premiums? They sure as hell won't take it out of their profits.
1-43-50 - Rod Ferentino's paradigm shift theory. Maybe he's got a point here about a national trend of decreasing volunteerism. He says that it's largely to do with increased training time required of the volunteers. Perhaps we should consider paying the volunteers for their time and expenses to get this training. I think this trend away from volunteerism also has to do with a selfishness that has been growing in the national consciousness for many years. How long has it been since you've heard a president say "Ask not, what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" ? Instead we now have a president that, after 9/11, tells us to go shopping, and thinks we can fight oil wars and put the tab on future generations. This could be changing soon. There is hope. Rod says that volunteerism will continue to fall and that we will soon have to go to a paid staff 24/7 and that this will cost us a lot. Leadership like this is not helping.
1-47-25 - Rod says that the Town of Covert is supportive of billing and the Town of Hector is opposed.
1-48-00 - Chris Thomas says that he will not support billing if the Town of Ulysses doesn't support it. Then he says that this move to paid 24/7 and billing is inevitable and that as an owner of a business, he knows how important it is to foresee these crisis points, because if it happens in the middle of a budget year, it's going to hurt us severely in the pocket book. This sounds like scare tactics to me. I disagree that this is inevitable, and even if we did have a "crisis point" next week, and the cost of the ambulance service doubled overnight, we are talking about the average tax payer having to pay $60/year/person instead of the current $30/year/person. That's not a crisis. We should continue to pay for the service through our taxes, and we should provide incentives to volunteers through our taxes, and we should stop electing Libertarians that want to privatize our community services.
1-53-00 - Other old business? Code ethics, gifts, .....
2-00-38 - Public comments - I speak briefly here and I said that at the public meeting 18 people spoke against billing and 9 spoke in favor. I didn't have my notes. It was actually 18 to 7 not 18 to 9. Of those who spoke in favor, some of them seem to have fallen for Chris Thomas's trick of saying that people without insurance will not be harmed because the village will adopt a policy of "non aggressive billing"
In favor - 7
Chris Thomas - Trustee responsible for all this
Geri Stevenson - fell for the trick
Renee Carver - fell for the trick
Geoffrey Hart - neoconservative
Justine Kolb - wife of Chris Thomas, fell for the trick
Ben Curtis - Independence Party
Didn't catch the name - Searsburg Rd
Opposed 18
Norm Hummel - volunteer paramedic
Allen Carstensen - author of this blog
Bob Howarth - Cornell professor
Rany Haas - volunteer fire and ems
Ron McLean - former fire volunteer
Mary Anne Archangeli - significant other of a volunteer
Michelle Paollilo - EMS volunteer
Robert Lodder - Prospect Street
Peter Meskill - Sheriff
Patricia Bonzall - Pennsylvania Ave
Barry Bines - Cayuga St
Jim Mason - volunteer fire fighter
Jackie Wright - volunteer and president of the Fire Company
Didn't catch the name - Swamp College Road
Deloris Something - Ulysses
Tammy Ward - volunteer
Charle Heath - volunteer
Ruth Kahn Rt 227
Not really clear
Deloris Higareda?
Blair Obrien?
2-05-50 - Doug Austic, again claims my $30/person is wrong. He said that he got a call from a guy who claims that he is paying $700/year for the ambulances service. It's based on assessment. Fine, I get it. Let's look at it that way.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Ulysses-New-York.html
at this site you learn that the median value of a house in Ulysses is $130,000
The portion of the tax bill for residents of Ulysses for the ambulance is 57 cents/thousand of assessment.
130 x .57 = $74.10 per household. The average household has 2.6 people living there
$74.10 divided by 2.6 people = $28.50 / person
To base our policies on sympathy for the poor guy that's paying $700 while living in a mansion, would seem a little too Bush like. We're not like that here in Ulysses are we? It's called progressive taxation. The rich are supposed to pay more. That's a good thing. Some rich people realize this and don't mind paying more. Others don't. You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. (Bush has a different version)
2-09-10 - Liz let's us know that the rest of the meeting is going to be boring, going over bills.
Town of Ulysses Resolution Regarding Funding of the Village of Trumansburg Ambulance/EMS Service.
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses has been notified of the recommendation of the Village of Trumansburg's EMS Task Force, to begin a policy of billing all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service in order to recover funds from insured residents and,
Whereas, the Town of Ulysses provides a large share of the funds for the operation of the Village of Trumansburg's ambulance/EMS service and,
Whereas, the Village of Trumansburg has requested a letter or resolution expressing support or opposition to this plan and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan would move us in a direction opposite to the wishes of many of our constituents and,
Whereas, it is unclear where the recovered insurance funds will be dedicated, whether to a retirement fund for Fire Department volunteers or to a tax break for residents, and if so, the amount.
Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents and,
Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve and,
Whereas, billing for ambulance services could negatively impact the level of donations to the ambulance service.
Therefore, be it hereby resolved that this board stands in opposition to the current plan to hire a third party billing company to bill all recipients of ambulatory care provided by the Trumansburg ambulance/EMS service unless those who have no insurance are guaranteed EMS/ambulance service at no charge and,
Further, be it resolved that this board feels that the funds that the Town of Ulysses provides to the Village of Trumansburg for the ambulance/EMS service are well spent, and we wish to continue to guarantee service to all residents in need of emergency free of charge other than the payments made through taxes.
Finally, be it resolved that a copy of this resolution be sent to the Village of Trumansburg.
1-28-29 - Doug Austic " I think there are a couple of things in your resolution that probably are not true"
Rod Ferentino "Whereas, it is the opinion of this board that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of some of our constituents - That's not true - at all - ok - you can't say that - I don't agree with that at all. "
This is key. If Rod truly doesn't believe that this plan could endanger the health and welfare of his constituents, then he isn't listening to the nine volunteers that spoke up at the public hearing. He later admits that in his first hand experience (He is a volunteer himself) more than half of potential recipients of care, are leery of accepting care now, because of a fear of big bills. The average citizen is unaware of the billing policies for our ambulance. They don't realize that they pay for it with their taxes, and that there is no charge for the care. The volunteers that spoke at the hearing said that if we go to billing, they will no longer be able to say, as they do now, that there will be no charge. "please don't tie our hands like that" one of them said. If we tie their hands - a life could be lost. Further, if we go to billing, it will be reported in the papers, and someone will realize one day soon, that if they call 911 when they are having chest pains, that they will get a bill, and they won't make the call. If they then die, the Village will never even know, that they are responsible for the death. This is obvious, and obviously the most important issue here. I don't know why we bother arguing about all of the small stuff surrounding this issue. If we accept this reality, the argument should be over.
1-34-00 - Chris Thomas again states that when Bangs comes up here, that the recipient has to pay Bangs on top of having to pay their private insurance premiums. Uh, if they've got insurance then the insurance company should pay Bangs, right?
1-35-22 - Rod Ferrinto objects to "Whereas, a switch to billing for ambulance/EMS services may cause health insurance companies to raise premiums paid by our constituents" Rod says there is no evidence of this. Chris Thomas also likes to make this argument. At the public hearing Chris said,
"And the argument that the money collected from these insurance companies will immediately and entirely be billed back to our community in the form of premiums, is a red herring not backed up by the least bit of information or research, but instead by loosely connected circumstances."
Well, Chris, nobody said "immediately and entirely", but yes, they will largely, and eventually be billed back to us. Here's some research for you; William McGuire is the CEO of United Health, one of the largest HMO's in the country. He makes 8 million/year plus bonuses, and has amassed 1.6 billion in stock options, one of the largest stock option fortunes in history. Bill gets around in a private jet. Let's look at some business basics. Bill has to balance income, expenses, and profit. If expenses go up (more people billing him) he has a tough choice to make. He can either raise income (premiums), or cut profit. Based on a quick look at his net worth, I think I know which one he has been choosing. Chris can obfuscate with talk about this account and that account and actuarial tables, but I'm not buying it. If we start billing, premiums will go up. There is no free lunch.
1-36-30 - Rod objects to "Whereas, many volunteers on the EMS/ambulance service are not in support of billing for ambulance services and have stated this change would negatively impact their willingness to serve" Rod objects, in spite of the fact that many of the volunteers at the public hearing stated exactly that. Norm Hummel said, at the public hearing that he would quit. Rod said "Norm's not going to quit" I'm not sure Rod is the best listener. He thinks that volunteerism might actually go up under this plan. I've talked to many of the volunteers, and Rod is the only one to hold this opinion.
1-43-12 - Doug Austic "what I'm saying is, the insurance companies are not going to reduce their premiums to the people in the town of Ulysses because they don't have to pay for the ambulance." It would take a great deal of research to know exactly how much every insurance company is charging and exactly how they each arrive at how they charge for what they charge. I'm afraid I don't have the time for that research, but it seems obvious to me that the insurance companies have large quantities of data on all of the residents of our fire district, including frequency of payments to ambulance companies. This data is easily sorted by zip code, so it would seem obvious that our premiums should be based upon these payments plus the profit margins for the various companies. If my assumptions are correct, then how could increased ambulance payments by these companies not result in increased premiums? They sure as hell won't take it out of their profits.
1-43-50 - Rod Ferentino's paradigm shift theory. Maybe he's got a point here about a national trend of decreasing volunteerism. He says that it's largely to do with increased training time required of the volunteers. Perhaps we should consider paying the volunteers for their time and expenses to get this training. I think this trend away from volunteerism also has to do with a selfishness that has been growing in the national consciousness for many years. How long has it been since you've heard a president say "Ask not, what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" ? Instead we now have a president that, after 9/11, tells us to go shopping, and thinks we can fight oil wars and put the tab on future generations. This could be changing soon. There is hope. Rod says that volunteerism will continue to fall and that we will soon have to go to a paid staff 24/7 and that this will cost us a lot. Leadership like this is not helping.
1-47-25 - Rod says that the Town of Covert is supportive of billing and the Town of Hector is opposed.
1-48-00 - Chris Thomas says that he will not support billing if the Town of Ulysses doesn't support it. Then he says that this move to paid 24/7 and billing is inevitable and that as an owner of a business, he knows how important it is to foresee these crisis points, because if it happens in the middle of a budget year, it's going to hurt us severely in the pocket book. This sounds like scare tactics to me. I disagree that this is inevitable, and even if we did have a "crisis point" next week, and the cost of the ambulance service doubled overnight, we are talking about the average tax payer having to pay $60/year/person instead of the current $30/year/person. That's not a crisis. We should continue to pay for the service through our taxes, and we should provide incentives to volunteers through our taxes, and we should stop electing Libertarians that want to privatize our community services.
1-53-00 - Other old business? Code ethics, gifts, .....
2-00-38 - Public comments - I speak briefly here and I said that at the public meeting 18 people spoke against billing and 9 spoke in favor. I didn't have my notes. It was actually 18 to 7 not 18 to 9. Of those who spoke in favor, some of them seem to have fallen for Chris Thomas's trick of saying that people without insurance will not be harmed because the village will adopt a policy of "non aggressive billing"
In favor - 7
Chris Thomas - Trustee responsible for all this
Geri Stevenson - fell for the trick
Renee Carver - fell for the trick
Geoffrey Hart - neoconservative
Justine Kolb - wife of Chris Thomas, fell for the trick
Ben Curtis - Independence Party
Didn't catch the name - Searsburg Rd
Opposed 18
Norm Hummel - volunteer paramedic
Allen Carstensen - author of this blog
Bob Howarth - Cornell professor
Rany Haas - volunteer fire and ems
Ron McLean - former fire volunteer
Mary Anne Archangeli - significant other of a volunteer
Michelle Paollilo - EMS volunteer
Robert Lodder - Prospect Street
Peter Meskill - Sheriff
Patricia Bonzall - Pennsylvania Ave
Barry Bines - Cayuga St
Jim Mason - volunteer fire fighter
Jackie Wright - volunteer and president of the Fire Company
Didn't catch the name - Swamp College Road
Deloris Something - Ulysses
Tammy Ward - volunteer
Charle Heath - volunteer
Ruth Kahn Rt 227
Not really clear
Deloris Higareda?
Blair Obrien?
2-05-50 - Doug Austic, again claims my $30/person is wrong. He said that he got a call from a guy who claims that he is paying $700/year for the ambulances service. It's based on assessment. Fine, I get it. Let's look at it that way.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Ulysses-New-York.html
at this site you learn that the median value of a house in Ulysses is $130,000
The portion of the tax bill for residents of Ulysses for the ambulance is 57 cents/thousand of assessment.
130 x .57 = $74.10 per household. The average household has 2.6 people living there
$74.10 divided by 2.6 people = $28.50 / person
To base our policies on sympathy for the poor guy that's paying $700 while living in a mansion, would seem a little too Bush like. We're not like that here in Ulysses are we? It's called progressive taxation. The rich are supposed to pay more. That's a good thing. Some rich people realize this and don't mind paying more. Others don't. You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. (Bush has a different version)
2-09-10 - Liz let's us know that the rest of the meeting is going to be boring, going over bills.
Thursday, June 19, 2008
PUBLIC HEARING -- SITE PLAN for PROPOSED BYRNE DAIRY PROJECT
Paula Hoorigan has written an important letter about this project. Get it HERE
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you.
Here's a LINK to the audio.
0 hours - 0 minutes - 0 seconds - start of meeting - Bill Connor speaks does the introduction and speaks about the purpose and format of the meeting
0-05-00 Bill turns it over to Christian Brunelle who manages the Byrne Dairy Stores
0-12-50 Sarah Adams speaks in favor of making changes to Bryne's plan, to bring it into line with the Comprehensive Plan,
As the plan currently is proposed the store would be open 24 hours a day. There would be 8 gas pumps, parking for 20 cars, extensive lighting, a double-sided backlit sign and approx. 25,000 sq. ft of asphalt.
The TC Planning Dept expressed concern that “the lighting proposed for this project is far greater than existing level of lighting emanated by the neighboring properties” and also recommends that the canopy design be revised to mimic the peaks of the building”. So far neither the Planning Board or Sonbyrne Sales has responded to these recommendations.
The “intent” of the Site Plan Review ordinance is :
“Preserving and enhancing neighborhood character”
“Achieving compatibility with adjacent development”
“Mitigating potentially negative impacts on traffic, parking, drainage, the landscape and similar environmental concerns”
“Improving the deign, function, aesthetics and safety of development projects and the overall visual and aesthetic quality of the village”
There are alternative ways to configure this project that would go a long way to mitigate its impacts. These include requiring hours of operation similar to those of all other businesses in the village; moving the building to the front of the site and placing the gas pumps behind the building; reducing the number of parking spaces and accompanying number of lights.
0-16-42 Geoffrey Hart speaks in favor of building it as currently drawn, and he calls it "modern architecture" "some people like Gothic, I happen to like Modern". I'm not sure that this is exactly what architects refer to as "modern architecture"
0-20-18 Don Scott, owner of Ron Don's, speaks in favor of the current design and says we have more important things to do than wasting our time on non issues like this. Okey Dokey, if he likes it, then considering other peoples opinions, is a waste of time.
0-21-40 Vicki Romanoff,
More later.........
Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Village Board Meeting 6/16/08
All officials were present, and,
Me - Allen Carstensen, and Laura
John and Martha Ullberg
Alan Vogel
Robert Brown
Geoffrey Hart
Me - Allen Carstensen, and Laura
John and Martha Ullberg
Alan Vogel
Robert Brown
Geoffrey Hart
Tom Ferritti - Police Cheif
Jason Fuller - Fire
Ed Hetherington - Building Inspector
Bruce Vann - DPW, Water, and Sewer
Jamie Saine - our new Trumansburg Free Press Reporter
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you. You can also put the file on an Ipod, and listen while taking a walk, or driving or doing the dishes! When you're done with the dishes, pull the plug and watch the dirty water going down the drain, as you listen to our democracy going down the drain. Great fun!
Here's the AUDIO LINK
Before the meeting started I passed out printed versions of a piece written by Norman Hummel who was on the Task Force that unanimously reccomended that the Village should decide by referendum whether or not to begin billing for ambulance services. You can read it at the Trumansburg Free Press Blog http://flakes1.wordpress.com/ Mr. Hummel is an active paramedic in the Trumansburg ambulance corps.
0 hrs. 0 min. 0 sec. - call to order, then the first public comment period were I inform the trustees of the latest news that logically would inspire them to pass the resolution to encourage Congress to look into impeachment of Bush and Cheney. You can get the text at trumansburgimpeachment.blogspot.com.
0-03-08 -- Jason Fulton (fire chief) claims that there are a couple of factual errors in my Free Press editorial published last Wednesday 6/13. I stated that “Chris Thomas’s Task Force Report claims that we could collect $252,000 per year with his privatization scheme. That works out to about $25 per year for each of us.” Jason claims that is my first error, because actually there are 3500 households (not 10,000) in the fire district. I didn’t say there were 10,000 households, however. I said “$25 per year for each of us” in other words I’m talking per capita, not per household. I don’t have an exact figure for the population of the fire district, but it is undeniably much closer to 10,000 than 3,500 and 10,000 makes the math easier. If my math was way off, (which it’s not) and it cost twice as much to continue to support our ambulance with my taxes, it would not change my arguments.
Next, Jason claims that I was incorrect when I wrote “Also, a significant portion of the ambulance budget is offset by donations and these would likely stop, when donors saw that bills were being sent.” Jason objects because I don’t understand how these donations are handled. I don’t really care how they are handled, they offset taxes. Perhaps he doesn’t understand which donations I was talking about. When someone, or a family member, is helped by the Ambulance/EMS Service, they often feel a sense of gratitude that compels them to make a donation, because they realize that the service exists thanks to the generosity of the volunteers and the taxpayers of the Fire District. This will change radically if we enter into a relationship with multibillion dollar private for profit health insurance companies. This will reduce donations to the department, thus increasing our taxes.
I greatly respect and appreciate Jason’s service to our community. He volunteers a great deal of his time on our behalf. I wish he understood where I was coming from.
0-05-00 - Department Heads
Ed Hetherington
Tom Ferritti
Bruce Vann
interesting discussion of how to find the lost water main crossing a property at the intersection of Waterburg and Curry Roads. There is an application for a new water service. A pipe runs through the property but they can't find it. (Water witch failed to find it - no really) Bruce found an outfit that offers to attempt to find these things with ground penetrating radar equipment but it costs $1200 a day - no guarantees. Any volunteer witches?
0-53-29 - Tammy Morse informs us,
6/18 - 7pm Elementary School auditorium Ambulance Billing Public Hearing
6/19 - 7pm Elementary School auditorium Byrne Dairy Site Plan Hearing
6/23 - 7pm Village Hall another Byrne Dairy Hearing (zoning interpretation)
0-59-05 Tammy McMillen financial stuff, including moving $2119 that was for street trees into the Main Street Project Fund. This sparked a conversation that included the fact that Bill Chaisson has written a grant proposal for some funds for street trees, that if we get it could do a lot more for us than the $2119. Thanks Bill!
1-19-10 Mayor's report - Marty talked about the progress toward DOT rules that should soon reduce large truck traffic on Rts 89 and 96.
1-23-04 Commissioners, first Chris Thomas on Fire/EMS, and MSP lights should be here within a month. He spoke about the format of Wednesdays EMS hearing. The format seems to be a bit up in the air still, but they agreed that residents of the district should get 3 minutes to make comments and/or ask questions. Marty mentioned that perhaps the volunteers should have more time. This gets shot down. Chris says they are just residents of a fire district in terms of a public hearing. What if we did a straw poll at the end. Ask for a show of hands for in favor of billing, opposed to billing, and then undecided. Tammy says we can't do this. Why not? We are still arguing over how many were in favor of impeachment last September 24th. Chris said he asked NYCOM six different ways to allow a referendum. I wish I could have been on that call. It doesn't make sense. I understand why they would want to discourage frequent referendums on day to day matters, but this is potentially a life and death issue. To add to the irony, they would require a referendum before instituting Thomas's Length of Service Award Program (retirement fund - LOSAP) which is decidedly not life and death. Weird.
2-03-24 - discussion of correspondence - I mentioned that I had sent an email to the board asking what happens to the solids, after they are separated out at our waste water treatment plant - and hadn't gotten an answer. John Hrubos told me that it is put in a dumpster and taken away by Yaws Environmental Lab. So I called them today and learned that it is spread on a farmer's field in Romulus. John said that it used to go up to Seneca Meadows but this is cheaper. Personally, I'd prefer to pay the extra to have it taken to Seneca Meadows. John said it's excellent fertilizer. Yes. It's high in nitrogen and other beneficial nutrients as long as you don't mind the heavy metals, and pharmaceuticals and other toxins. There's a group of concerned citizens near Mecklenburg that have organized to fight the dumping of this crap on fields around them. http://carrcny.org/ Sometimes it gets spread on the fields before a heavy rain and then it gets washed into Trumansburg Creek. Lovely.
2-07-00 John talks about water infrastructure work. Coating a tank on 89, replacing some pumps, and some water main on 96.
2-10-11 request for closing Cayuga St. on 6/28 from Prospect to King for a block party - approved
2-12-32 John talks about a drainage problem on Lake St. that is going to have to be repaired for big bucks eventually.
2-16-00 Farmers Market Agreement
2-23-14 Telephone Building Update. Sounds encouraging. We are moving closer to purchasing the old building for use as a Community Center - thanks to the work of John Vogel, John Ullberg, and Don Schlather.
2-54-12 Zoning Moratorium extension on Auble property which expires on 7/31 They are going to try to extend for another 6 months - to give time to complete zoning ordinance update
We got 2 $1900 celebration grants for the Winter Festival and the Main St Dance - 9/6
The County will be helping us soon with the zoning ordinance update. Mayor and a couple of trustees will be meeting with Ed Marks soon.
3-02-40 Paying Bills
3-08-06 Public Comment period 2. I ask Chris Thomas to clarify the numbers that Jason based his objections to my Free Press article on. He agreed that I wasn't far off when basing my math on 10,000 residents of the Fire District. Tammy Morse said there are about 3500 Tax Parcels in the District - not people.
adjourn
Jamie Saine - our new Trumansburg Free Press Reporter
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you. You can also put the file on an Ipod, and listen while taking a walk, or driving or doing the dishes! When you're done with the dishes, pull the plug and watch the dirty water going down the drain, as you listen to our democracy going down the drain. Great fun!
Here's the AUDIO LINK
Before the meeting started I passed out printed versions of a piece written by Norman Hummel who was on the Task Force that unanimously reccomended that the Village should decide by referendum whether or not to begin billing for ambulance services. You can read it at the Trumansburg Free Press Blog http://flakes1.wordpress.com/ Mr. Hummel is an active paramedic in the Trumansburg ambulance corps.
0 hrs. 0 min. 0 sec. - call to order, then the first public comment period were I inform the trustees of the latest news that logically would inspire them to pass the resolution to encourage Congress to look into impeachment of Bush and Cheney. You can get the text at trumansburgimpeachment.blogspot.com.
0-03-08 -- Jason Fulton (fire chief) claims that there are a couple of factual errors in my Free Press editorial published last Wednesday 6/13. I stated that “Chris Thomas’s Task Force Report claims that we could collect $252,000 per year with his privatization scheme. That works out to about $25 per year for each of us.” Jason claims that is my first error, because actually there are 3500 households (not 10,000) in the fire district. I didn’t say there were 10,000 households, however. I said “$25 per year for each of us” in other words I’m talking per capita, not per household. I don’t have an exact figure for the population of the fire district, but it is undeniably much closer to 10,000 than 3,500 and 10,000 makes the math easier. If my math was way off, (which it’s not) and it cost twice as much to continue to support our ambulance with my taxes, it would not change my arguments.
Next, Jason claims that I was incorrect when I wrote “Also, a significant portion of the ambulance budget is offset by donations and these would likely stop, when donors saw that bills were being sent.” Jason objects because I don’t understand how these donations are handled. I don’t really care how they are handled, they offset taxes. Perhaps he doesn’t understand which donations I was talking about. When someone, or a family member, is helped by the Ambulance/EMS Service, they often feel a sense of gratitude that compels them to make a donation, because they realize that the service exists thanks to the generosity of the volunteers and the taxpayers of the Fire District. This will change radically if we enter into a relationship with multibillion dollar private for profit health insurance companies. This will reduce donations to the department, thus increasing our taxes.
I greatly respect and appreciate Jason’s service to our community. He volunteers a great deal of his time on our behalf. I wish he understood where I was coming from.
0-05-00 - Department Heads
Ed Hetherington
Tom Ferritti
Bruce Vann
interesting discussion of how to find the lost water main crossing a property at the intersection of Waterburg and Curry Roads. There is an application for a new water service. A pipe runs through the property but they can't find it. (Water witch failed to find it - no really) Bruce found an outfit that offers to attempt to find these things with ground penetrating radar equipment but it costs $1200 a day - no guarantees. Any volunteer witches?
0-53-29 - Tammy Morse informs us,
6/18 - 7pm Elementary School auditorium Ambulance Billing Public Hearing
6/19 - 7pm Elementary School auditorium Byrne Dairy Site Plan Hearing
6/23 - 7pm Village Hall another Byrne Dairy Hearing (zoning interpretation)
0-59-05 Tammy McMillen financial stuff, including moving $2119 that was for street trees into the Main Street Project Fund. This sparked a conversation that included the fact that Bill Chaisson has written a grant proposal for some funds for street trees, that if we get it could do a lot more for us than the $2119. Thanks Bill!
1-19-10 Mayor's report - Marty talked about the progress toward DOT rules that should soon reduce large truck traffic on Rts 89 and 96.
1-23-04 Commissioners, first Chris Thomas on Fire/EMS, and MSP lights should be here within a month. He spoke about the format of Wednesdays EMS hearing. The format seems to be a bit up in the air still, but they agreed that residents of the district should get 3 minutes to make comments and/or ask questions. Marty mentioned that perhaps the volunteers should have more time. This gets shot down. Chris says they are just residents of a fire district in terms of a public hearing. What if we did a straw poll at the end. Ask for a show of hands for in favor of billing, opposed to billing, and then undecided. Tammy says we can't do this. Why not? We are still arguing over how many were in favor of impeachment last September 24th. Chris said he asked NYCOM six different ways to allow a referendum. I wish I could have been on that call. It doesn't make sense. I understand why they would want to discourage frequent referendums on day to day matters, but this is potentially a life and death issue. To add to the irony, they would require a referendum before instituting Thomas's Length of Service Award Program (retirement fund - LOSAP) which is decidedly not life and death. Weird.
2-03-24 - discussion of correspondence - I mentioned that I had sent an email to the board asking what happens to the solids, after they are separated out at our waste water treatment plant - and hadn't gotten an answer. John Hrubos told me that it is put in a dumpster and taken away by Yaws Environmental Lab. So I called them today and learned that it is spread on a farmer's field in Romulus. John said that it used to go up to Seneca Meadows but this is cheaper. Personally, I'd prefer to pay the extra to have it taken to Seneca Meadows. John said it's excellent fertilizer. Yes. It's high in nitrogen and other beneficial nutrients as long as you don't mind the heavy metals, and pharmaceuticals and other toxins. There's a group of concerned citizens near Mecklenburg that have organized to fight the dumping of this crap on fields around them. http://carrcny.org/ Sometimes it gets spread on the fields before a heavy rain and then it gets washed into Trumansburg Creek. Lovely.
2-07-00 John talks about water infrastructure work. Coating a tank on 89, replacing some pumps, and some water main on 96.
2-10-11 request for closing Cayuga St. on 6/28 from Prospect to King for a block party - approved
2-12-32 John talks about a drainage problem on Lake St. that is going to have to be repaired for big bucks eventually.
2-16-00 Farmers Market Agreement
2-23-14 Telephone Building Update. Sounds encouraging. We are moving closer to purchasing the old building for use as a Community Center - thanks to the work of John Vogel, John Ullberg, and Don Schlather.
2-54-12 Zoning Moratorium extension on Auble property which expires on 7/31 They are going to try to extend for another 6 months - to give time to complete zoning ordinance update
We got 2 $1900 celebration grants for the Winter Festival and the Main St Dance - 9/6
The County will be helping us soon with the zoning ordinance update. Mayor and a couple of trustees will be meeting with Ed Marks soon.
3-02-40 Paying Bills
3-08-06 Public Comment period 2. I ask Chris Thomas to clarify the numbers that Jason based his objections to my Free Press article on. He agreed that I wasn't far off when basing my math on 10,000 residents of the Fire District. Tammy Morse said there are about 3500 Tax Parcels in the District - not people.
adjourn
Wednesday, June 11, 2008
Town Board Meeting 6/10/08
This was an important meeting. There was a lot of discussion about, and audience support for, the Black Diamond Trail. All of the Board members were present and here's a list of folks that signed the sign in sheet,
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you. You can also put the file on an Ipod, and listen while taking a walk, or driving or doing the dishes! When you're done with the dishes, pull the plug and watch the dirty water going down the drain, as you listen to our democracy going down the drain. Great fun!
Here's the AUDIO LINK
I'll add some notes and times later.
Jan Zeserson
Marvin Pritts - Jan and Marvin spoke on behalf of the Black Diamond Trail
Diane Hillman
Roxanne Marino
Paula McGuire
Jim Arey
Lee and Sherry Haifele
Allen, and Laura Carstensen
Dave Shurman
Paul Yonge
Warren Brown
Megan Carey
Tom Prisloe
Fred Bonn
Krys Cail
Tom Myers
Geoffrey Hart
Chris Thomas
Barbara Hotchkiss
Jason and Ethan Fulton
There wasn't quite enough room for everybody. A few people stood out in the hall. Many came to voice support for the Black Diamond Trail.
I spoke briefly on behalf of leaving our terrific Ambulance/ems service just as it is and should be - fully taxpayer funded. Please visit my blog about this - trumansburgambulance.blogspot.com
I spoke briefly on behalf of leaving our terrific Ambulance/ems service just as it is and should be - fully taxpayer funded. Please visit my blog about this - trumansburgambulance.blogspot.com
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you. You can also put the file on an Ipod, and listen while taking a walk, or driving or doing the dishes! When you're done with the dishes, pull the plug and watch the dirty water going down the drain, as you listen to our democracy going down the drain. Great fun!
Here's the AUDIO LINK
I'll add some notes and times later.
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
Town Board Meeting 5/13/08
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you. You can also put the file on an Ipod, and listen while taking a walk, or driving or doing the dishes! When you're done with the dishes, pull the plug and watch the dirty water going down the drain, as you listen to our democracy going down the drain. Great fun!
present at the meeting
Liz Thomas
Dave Kerness
Rod Ferintino
Doug Austic
Marsha Georgia
Jim Meeker
Bill Chaisson
Roxanne Marino
Peter Meskill
and who else? I wasn't there
Here's the audio link
Disappointing news - Chris Thomas reports that NYCOM has said they can not, by law, have a referendum on privatization of the ambulance/ems.
0 hrs 0 mins 0 sec - pledge of allegiance and approval of minutes
0-05-20 budget adjustment
0-7-15 Jim Dennis - report from County Legislature and discussion of the DOT truck traffic rules
0-14-15 Chris Thomas speaks about the Telephone Company building. Then he states that although the Village passed a resolution yesterday in favor of holding a referendum on his ambulance privatization scheme, He discovered today that NYCOM has very specific rules for what you can and can not have a referendum on, and this is not one of them. He said that they will go forward with disseminating information and hold a public hearing late in June or early in July. It will then be up to a vote of the Village Board.
Dave Kerness questions Chris about the Telephone Company building
Liz brings it back to the ambulance issue. She askes about the Length of Service Award Program. (LOSAP - retirement benefits for fire fighters and ambulance personel) Chris points out that this would have to be decided by referendum. This is strange. The question of whether or not to initiate LOSAP is important but certainly not as important as whether or not we privatize our ambulance system. So, if the board votes to privatize, then we would have a referendum where we are asked to weigh in on the less important of the two isssues? It's absurd. I would assume that the spirit of the NYCOM rules is to encourage officials to make day to day decisions without resorting to the expense and the bother of frequent referendums. This privatization issue rises above the level of day to day decisions. If NYCOM insists that we have a referendum for LOSAP, then lets vote on two proposals on the same ballot.
A.) shall we privatize the ambulance/ems?
B.) if we privatize, shall we also start LOSAP?
This wouldn't cost any extra.
Check out Michelle Paollilo's comments on LOSAP from yesterday's Village Board meeting below.
For some reason, Chris seems to think that the LOSAP referendum would be Trumansburg only. Why exclude the rest of the district? They are partners in funding the Fire Dept. and the ambulance service. Can't we somehow include them in the LOSAP decision making and funding? Doug points out that Ulysses funds 65% of the Fire/EMS. presumably they would have to shoulder 65% of contributions to LOSAP. But Ulysses can't vote? Dave asks this question, and Chris answers that the Village of Trumansburg, being the owner of the Fire Department, would bear the legal responsibility to honor the LOSAP obligations to retirees, in the event of the program going bust. Hmmm. Aren't there lots of pension programs going bust nationally, and aren't the losers the retirees as opposed to the employers? Couldn't the Village attorney somehow ensure that the village would not be on the hook if the company that handled LOSAP went belly up? Personally, I prefer to invest in canned tunafish. Our economic outlook is bleak. Maybe that would be a good way to encourage volunteers - safe investments like gold.
Liz Thomas points out that younger potential volunteers are not apt to be inticed by retirement benefits.
Doug says "I don't think we have any problem being in support of third party billing, do we?"
Liz says "I don't"
Damn.
0-37-10 Planning Board update -
0-38-12 Comprehensive Plan - Roxanne Marino - reports on the public meetings. Goal is to have a draft plan sometime in June. Ag Protection Plan progress.
0-45-40 Camping on the side of the road during Grassroots - various tactics are discussed to stop it.
1-12-09 Roxanne about wind power ordinances, and states her support for developing the Telephone Company building into a community center
1-14-10 Jim Meeker highway report.
1-26-02 Marsha Georgia treasury
1-27-04 Liz reports on the Village meeting.
1-29-34 Dick Coogan - Purchase of Development Rights? The battery in my recorder dies here. sorry.
Dave Kerness
Rod Ferrentino
Doug Austic
Liz Thomas
Marsha Georgia
present at the meeting
Liz Thomas
Dave Kerness
Rod Ferintino
Doug Austic
Marsha Georgia
Jim Meeker
Bill Chaisson
Roxanne Marino
Peter Meskill
and who else? I wasn't there
Here's the audio link
Disappointing news - Chris Thomas reports that NYCOM has said they can not, by law, have a referendum on privatization of the ambulance/ems.
0 hrs 0 mins 0 sec - pledge of allegiance and approval of minutes
0-05-20 budget adjustment
0-7-15 Jim Dennis - report from County Legislature and discussion of the DOT truck traffic rules
0-14-15 Chris Thomas speaks about the Telephone Company building. Then he states that although the Village passed a resolution yesterday in favor of holding a referendum on his ambulance privatization scheme, He discovered today that NYCOM has very specific rules for what you can and can not have a referendum on, and this is not one of them. He said that they will go forward with disseminating information and hold a public hearing late in June or early in July. It will then be up to a vote of the Village Board.
Dave Kerness questions Chris about the Telephone Company building
Liz brings it back to the ambulance issue. She askes about the Length of Service Award Program. (LOSAP - retirement benefits for fire fighters and ambulance personel) Chris points out that this would have to be decided by referendum. This is strange. The question of whether or not to initiate LOSAP is important but certainly not as important as whether or not we privatize our ambulance system. So, if the board votes to privatize, then we would have a referendum where we are asked to weigh in on the less important of the two isssues? It's absurd. I would assume that the spirit of the NYCOM rules is to encourage officials to make day to day decisions without resorting to the expense and the bother of frequent referendums. This privatization issue rises above the level of day to day decisions. If NYCOM insists that we have a referendum for LOSAP, then lets vote on two proposals on the same ballot.
A.) shall we privatize the ambulance/ems?
B.) if we privatize, shall we also start LOSAP?
This wouldn't cost any extra.
Check out Michelle Paollilo's comments on LOSAP from yesterday's Village Board meeting below.
For some reason, Chris seems to think that the LOSAP referendum would be Trumansburg only. Why exclude the rest of the district? They are partners in funding the Fire Dept. and the ambulance service. Can't we somehow include them in the LOSAP decision making and funding? Doug points out that Ulysses funds 65% of the Fire/EMS. presumably they would have to shoulder 65% of contributions to LOSAP. But Ulysses can't vote? Dave asks this question, and Chris answers that the Village of Trumansburg, being the owner of the Fire Department, would bear the legal responsibility to honor the LOSAP obligations to retirees, in the event of the program going bust. Hmmm. Aren't there lots of pension programs going bust nationally, and aren't the losers the retirees as opposed to the employers? Couldn't the Village attorney somehow ensure that the village would not be on the hook if the company that handled LOSAP went belly up? Personally, I prefer to invest in canned tunafish. Our economic outlook is bleak. Maybe that would be a good way to encourage volunteers - safe investments like gold.
Liz Thomas points out that younger potential volunteers are not apt to be inticed by retirement benefits.
Doug says "I don't think we have any problem being in support of third party billing, do we?"
Liz says "I don't"
Damn.
0-37-10 Planning Board update -
0-38-12 Comprehensive Plan - Roxanne Marino - reports on the public meetings. Goal is to have a draft plan sometime in June. Ag Protection Plan progress.
0-45-40 Camping on the side of the road during Grassroots - various tactics are discussed to stop it.
1-12-09 Roxanne about wind power ordinances, and states her support for developing the Telephone Company building into a community center
1-14-10 Jim Meeker highway report.
1-26-02 Marsha Georgia treasury
1-27-04 Liz reports on the Village meeting.
1-29-34 Dick Coogan - Purchase of Development Rights? The battery in my recorder dies here. sorry.
Dave Kerness
Rod Ferrentino
Doug Austic
Liz Thomas
Marsha Georgia
Village Board Meeting 5/12/08
You will see a link to an mp3 file of the meeting below. If you click on the link, you can listen from within your browser, but there is usually a way to move this mp3 file to your desktop. In Firefox, you wait for the whole file to move to the browser, (a minute or two) then you go - File - Save Page As..... and you can put it anywhere you want. The advantage is that you can then listen with other programs (Real Player, Itunes etc.) which allow you to adjust equalizer settings and they give you a time counter. With the time counter and my notes below, you can jump to the part that interests you. You can also put the file on an Ipod, and listen while taking a walk, or driving or doing the dishes! When you're done with the dishes, pull the plug and watch the dirty water going down the drain, as you listen to our democracy going down the drain. Great fun!
AUDIO
At the meeting - all officials and,
Geoffrey Hart, Tom Ferritti, Bruce Vann, Susan Robertson, Ed Hetherington, Bob Brown, Richard Nowogrodski, Liz Thomas, Maryanne Archangeli, Michele Paollilo, David and Susan Means, Bill Chaisson, and Allen Carstensen (me)
0 hrs - 0 mins - o sec I got there a few minutes after 7pm and Liz Thomas was reporting on Ulysses news.
0-1-44 EMS news from Susan Robertson - Ice Cream Social 6:30 - 8:30 Monday the 19th
0-3-19 Ed Hetherington gives the Building Inspector report
0-5-20 Police report from Tom Ferritti
0-7-20 DPW, Water, and Sewer - Bruce Vann
0-11-45 Tammy Morse - Clerk's report - The Village got two community celebration grants
0-23-06 Treasury report - discussion of Village use of credit cards
0-40-28 Mayor's report - Marty went to Skaneatles to see Gov. Paterson, and Sen. Schumer speak. Paterson said he was ordering the DOT to enact rules which will limit the use of rural routes by truck traffic. Marty encourages Tom Ferritti to enforce these rules.
Marty says he wants to get together with the town, and the Community Science Water Quality Monitoring program to discuss their sampling protocol.
0-45-50 Chris Thomas presents his Task Force report which recommends hiring Professional Ambulance Billing LLC (PAB) http://www.4pab.com/ to send a bill to every recipient of ambulatory care from our Trumansburg Ambulance Company. This would be a radical departure from the way we have operated since the 1970's when we first began offering this to the community. Currently, the service is supported by donations and by taxes from Trumansburg, Ulysses, and parts of Covert and Hector. We democratically decided to form this service and fund it through our taxes. In 2008 the cost was $300,535.00. Spread over the population of the district, about 10,000 people, the cost per person is about $30/year. This is a reasonable tax to pay, for an excellent service, largely staffed by dedicated volunteers. It is incumbent upon us to continue to pay this tax, and not try to shift the tax burden onto society at large. This is the essence of this scheme. By entering into relationships with private for profit corporations (PAB, and insurance companies) we could shift our taxes onto the already very expensive national health care system. This is perfectly legal, but completely wrongheaded.
Chris Thomas - "Some patients would choose not to accept necessary medical attention or transport due to the fact that they might receive a bill. While this is a concern, it's important to point out that the village is the employer of the third party billing company, if we choose to go that route, and what that means is that as a village we have the right to dictate the terms of collections. So, since we are trying to mitigate costs, and not create a for profit company, the idea is that we would move toward a system of getting the majority of our dollars from Medicaid, Medicare, and private carriers. If somebody does not have insurance (which we've determined to be about 15% of the population), if those people were to receive a bill and not pay it, the village would not pursue collection......." He goes on to point out that the cost of the ambulance ride would not be the overriding factor in comparison to other bills potentially coming from the hospital. He's missing the point. If someone loses a family member, for fear of the cost, then it's too late to discuss whether the village is going to pursue collection or not, and it's too late to discuss the costs of the ambulance vs other costs. The only way to avoid this scenario is a thorough public information campaign to ensure the public is completely aware, that the village will not pursue collection. When I've questioned Chris about this, he seems very much against such a campaign. He feels that anyone who can pay, should pay, therefore such a campaign would work against his plan.
Chris admits that this privatization scheme might change the way volunteers feel about their work. To offset this hazard (if volunteers leave, the costs go way up) he proposes to introduce the Length of Service Award Program (LOSAP) This would be a relatively expensive program of retirement benefits offered to the volunteers. (more on this below) Chris says that a referendum would be required to initiate this program.
Marty raised the issue of co-pays. It's not clear how that would work
Debbie points out that some insurance companies won't pay for some services. What happens if we send a bill and the insurance company doesn't pay it? I think Chris gets the answer wrong. I think the insurance company would, at that point send a notice to all parties, PAB, the village, and the care recipient, or family. At that point, most people would get out a credit card and pay PAB. Is this what the village wants?
1-14-33 Rordan says that this year's $300,00 will likely double in 10-12 years, if the 6% increases of the last two years hold. 6% is only slightly above the real inflation rate. Everything is going up, let's not base our decision on this. If we and other municipalities privatize, then profit enters the picture and has to come from somewhere. Pushing our costs off onto the already world record breaking costs of our national health care system is wrong. If we push it off, we should realize that it becomes larger when it lands on our national health care system, because it will include the overhead and profit of the private corporations.
1-27-0 passed resolution calling for a referendum and a public hearing. Marty says it's been a touchy issue for many years. I'd like some history here. Anybody know how this debate went last time, and who took what positions?
1-28-08 Main Street Project - lights are ordered.
1-31-30 Youth and Community - Debbie discusses movie nights
1-34-50 correspondence - bricks
1-41-08 cell phones for the village
1-44-30 Phone Company building potential purchase - meeting on the 27th - cost of asbestos removal is higher than thought
1-47-30 David Means - bike racks
1-53-12 Zoning - Tammy sent documents to Tompkins Country Planning
1-55-35 Bills
2-00-16 Second public comment period. I express my concern that people will not be aware that the village will not pursue unpaid bills (thereby risking some not accessing necessary care) and Chris responds "it's not something that we're going to advertise"
Chris says "I guess what Marty is suggesting is that in terms of the idea of advertising that you don't have to pay, that a fund is created, I don't personally support that. I mean the idea that a country where capitalism exists, and when people can pay they should pay, if people can't pay and they don't pay, then what we're saying is that we're not going to pursue you, but you know, I think the idea of advertising to people, you know, because at that point you're telling somebody that even though they don't have insurance but they have a good job and they have plenty of money, that they don't have to pay. I think that is an inappropriate way to approach it. (would Chris please provide some examples of people that don't have insurance, but have good jobs and plenty of money?) Um, if somebody can't pay they won't, if somebody can pay they might, you know what I mean? If you really can't pay, you won't and you won't be pursued or collected beyond that"
John - " the other problem with advertising that you won't be pursued at all is that there's potential for abuse"
Chris - " That's my point in not advertising"
John - "not only for those that can't but for those that can, they will then say - well this is mighty convenient. And I think the company experiences a little bit of that now. Some people will say - well this is a free ride."
It seems to me that Chris and John do not hold the people in high esteem.
2-08-20 Richard Nowogrodski - about the referendum. Then he points out that nationwide and statewide - volunteer ambulance companies are having a hard time keeping and recruiting volunteers, but Trumansburg is bucking that trend. We are doing well in that respect. He suggests that it would be wise to ask why. I think he's inferring that the fact that it is free might have something to do with the good morale.
2-12-50 Chris talks about the LOSAP program
2-16-30 Michelle Paollilo speaks about the LOSAP program. She asks how much it's going to cost. Chris says the first year would be about 120,000 which could be capitalized over 5 years. Then a guaranteed cost of about $30,000/year. Michelle says that as a tax payer it is unsettling that we would initiate this expensive program at the same time as we find ourselves compelled to look at billing for EMS services in order to save money. She said that she would not be compelled to stay on as a volunteer by being offered LOSAP.
2-23-50 Motion to adjourn.
AUDIO
At the meeting - all officials and,
Geoffrey Hart, Tom Ferritti, Bruce Vann, Susan Robertson, Ed Hetherington, Bob Brown, Richard Nowogrodski, Liz Thomas, Maryanne Archangeli, Michele Paollilo, David and Susan Means, Bill Chaisson, and Allen Carstensen (me)
0 hrs - 0 mins - o sec I got there a few minutes after 7pm and Liz Thomas was reporting on Ulysses news.
0-1-44 EMS news from Susan Robertson - Ice Cream Social 6:30 - 8:30 Monday the 19th
0-3-19 Ed Hetherington gives the Building Inspector report
0-5-20 Police report from Tom Ferritti
0-7-20 DPW, Water, and Sewer - Bruce Vann
0-11-45 Tammy Morse - Clerk's report - The Village got two community celebration grants
0-23-06 Treasury report - discussion of Village use of credit cards
0-40-28 Mayor's report - Marty went to Skaneatles to see Gov. Paterson, and Sen. Schumer speak. Paterson said he was ordering the DOT to enact rules which will limit the use of rural routes by truck traffic. Marty encourages Tom Ferritti to enforce these rules.
Marty says he wants to get together with the town, and the Community Science Water Quality Monitoring program to discuss their sampling protocol.
0-45-50 Chris Thomas presents his Task Force report which recommends hiring Professional Ambulance Billing LLC (PAB) http://www.4pab.com/ to send a bill to every recipient of ambulatory care from our Trumansburg Ambulance Company. This would be a radical departure from the way we have operated since the 1970's when we first began offering this to the community. Currently, the service is supported by donations and by taxes from Trumansburg, Ulysses, and parts of Covert and Hector. We democratically decided to form this service and fund it through our taxes. In 2008 the cost was $300,535.00. Spread over the population of the district, about 10,000 people, the cost per person is about $30/year. This is a reasonable tax to pay, for an excellent service, largely staffed by dedicated volunteers. It is incumbent upon us to continue to pay this tax, and not try to shift the tax burden onto society at large. This is the essence of this scheme. By entering into relationships with private for profit corporations (PAB, and insurance companies) we could shift our taxes onto the already very expensive national health care system. This is perfectly legal, but completely wrongheaded.
Chris Thomas - "Some patients would choose not to accept necessary medical attention or transport due to the fact that they might receive a bill. While this is a concern, it's important to point out that the village is the employer of the third party billing company, if we choose to go that route, and what that means is that as a village we have the right to dictate the terms of collections. So, since we are trying to mitigate costs, and not create a for profit company, the idea is that we would move toward a system of getting the majority of our dollars from Medicaid, Medicare, and private carriers. If somebody does not have insurance (which we've determined to be about 15% of the population), if those people were to receive a bill and not pay it, the village would not pursue collection......." He goes on to point out that the cost of the ambulance ride would not be the overriding factor in comparison to other bills potentially coming from the hospital. He's missing the point. If someone loses a family member, for fear of the cost, then it's too late to discuss whether the village is going to pursue collection or not, and it's too late to discuss the costs of the ambulance vs other costs. The only way to avoid this scenario is a thorough public information campaign to ensure the public is completely aware, that the village will not pursue collection. When I've questioned Chris about this, he seems very much against such a campaign. He feels that anyone who can pay, should pay, therefore such a campaign would work against his plan.
Chris admits that this privatization scheme might change the way volunteers feel about their work. To offset this hazard (if volunteers leave, the costs go way up) he proposes to introduce the Length of Service Award Program (LOSAP) This would be a relatively expensive program of retirement benefits offered to the volunteers. (more on this below) Chris says that a referendum would be required to initiate this program.
Marty raised the issue of co-pays. It's not clear how that would work
Debbie points out that some insurance companies won't pay for some services. What happens if we send a bill and the insurance company doesn't pay it? I think Chris gets the answer wrong. I think the insurance company would, at that point send a notice to all parties, PAB, the village, and the care recipient, or family. At that point, most people would get out a credit card and pay PAB. Is this what the village wants?
1-14-33 Rordan says that this year's $300,00 will likely double in 10-12 years, if the 6% increases of the last two years hold. 6% is only slightly above the real inflation rate. Everything is going up, let's not base our decision on this. If we and other municipalities privatize, then profit enters the picture and has to come from somewhere. Pushing our costs off onto the already world record breaking costs of our national health care system is wrong. If we push it off, we should realize that it becomes larger when it lands on our national health care system, because it will include the overhead and profit of the private corporations.
1-27-0 passed resolution calling for a referendum and a public hearing. Marty says it's been a touchy issue for many years. I'd like some history here. Anybody know how this debate went last time, and who took what positions?
1-28-08 Main Street Project - lights are ordered.
1-31-30 Youth and Community - Debbie discusses movie nights
1-34-50 correspondence - bricks
1-41-08 cell phones for the village
1-44-30 Phone Company building potential purchase - meeting on the 27th - cost of asbestos removal is higher than thought
1-47-30 David Means - bike racks
1-53-12 Zoning - Tammy sent documents to Tompkins Country Planning
1-55-35 Bills
2-00-16 Second public comment period. I express my concern that people will not be aware that the village will not pursue unpaid bills (thereby risking some not accessing necessary care) and Chris responds "it's not something that we're going to advertise"
Chris says "I guess what Marty is suggesting is that in terms of the idea of advertising that you don't have to pay, that a fund is created, I don't personally support that. I mean the idea that a country where capitalism exists, and when people can pay they should pay, if people can't pay and they don't pay, then what we're saying is that we're not going to pursue you, but you know, I think the idea of advertising to people, you know, because at that point you're telling somebody that even though they don't have insurance but they have a good job and they have plenty of money, that they don't have to pay. I think that is an inappropriate way to approach it. (would Chris please provide some examples of people that don't have insurance, but have good jobs and plenty of money?) Um, if somebody can't pay they won't, if somebody can pay they might, you know what I mean? If you really can't pay, you won't and you won't be pursued or collected beyond that"
John - " the other problem with advertising that you won't be pursued at all is that there's potential for abuse"
Chris - " That's my point in not advertising"
John - "not only for those that can't but for those that can, they will then say - well this is mighty convenient. And I think the company experiences a little bit of that now. Some people will say - well this is a free ride."
It seems to me that Chris and John do not hold the people in high esteem.
2-08-20 Richard Nowogrodski - about the referendum. Then he points out that nationwide and statewide - volunteer ambulance companies are having a hard time keeping and recruiting volunteers, but Trumansburg is bucking that trend. We are doing well in that respect. He suggests that it would be wise to ask why. I think he's inferring that the fact that it is free might have something to do with the good morale.
2-12-50 Chris talks about the LOSAP program
2-16-30 Michelle Paollilo speaks about the LOSAP program. She asks how much it's going to cost. Chris says the first year would be about 120,000 which could be capitalized over 5 years. Then a guaranteed cost of about $30,000/year. Michelle says that as a tax payer it is unsettling that we would initiate this expensive program at the same time as we find ourselves compelled to look at billing for EMS services in order to save money. She said that she would not be compelled to stay on as a volunteer by being offered LOSAP.
2-23-50 Motion to adjourn.
Friday, May 2, 2008
Trumansburg Village Board Members
Tammy McMillen Treasurer
Tammy Morse Village Clerk
Mayor Marty Petrovic
Trustee John Hrubos
Trustee Debbie Nottke
Trustee Chris Thomas
Trustee Rordan Hart
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